Read/Write Common should be well... common.

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Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby RedRaven on Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:49 pm

While I understand that this is more of a medieval system where very few persons save the clergy, and maybe some nobles would be able to read and write, I believe that for ease of RP that at the very least Read/Write common should be well common as Speaking Common.

There are many RP's/quests and what not, which are announced as being notes written and posted all over town. If players are not able to read then they could not in theory take part in such quests which would cut down on potential RP.

Making Read/Write Common would be a simple edit. If someone did not wish to be able to read/write then it would be easier to note it somewhere, perhaps in the notes section.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:57 pm

I do not see the necessity of this post. All characters know automaticly how to speak, read and write both common and their base language at start... Now some people want their characters to come into play more illeterate, that is fine and their own option, but by default, you automaticly know that much.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby RedRaven on Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 pm

Actually, I was informed last night that you automatically get speak both common and your race language for free. But if you wanted ANY Read/Write Language that you had to purchase it with skill points.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:05 pm

Well that information only holds some water if it comes from an OP and if an OP does says so after everyone assuming exactly the contrary and given how much that question arouse in the OOC through the last years, then it's a change and then yes, it makes absolutly no sence that a character can't read when every piece of information available in nanthalion is sent in form of a letter.

But I don't think that the information was provided by an OP at any rate.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby lyllamarie on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:08 pm

You have to realize that literacy in the Renaissance. the Dark Ages and before mass printing was available was meant for the rich and well educated. Right?

So how would it make sense that EVERYONE would automatically know how to read and write unless the game had public schools and mass amounts of printed material?

It wouldn't.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby RedRaven on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:13 pm

Info was provided last night by L in the Guise of Cevelt. Log of whole PM Follows.


**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 8 20:21:04 2011

Nov 08 20:21:23 <RedRaven-Apoth> So, just to be clear.. If we don't take Read/Write common we can not Read/write common?
Nov 08 20:21:38 <Cevelt> Correct
Nov 08 20:22:03 * RedRaven-Apoth mutters, grummbles and cusses softly. "ok."
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 8 20:22:12 2011

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 8 20:22:39 2011

Nov 08 20:22:39 <Cevelt> I'm with you dear
Nov 08 20:23:15 * RedRaven-Apoth suggests that, that is changed,
Nov 08 20:23:22 <RedRaven-Apoth> Common at least.
Nov 08 20:23:46 <RedRaven-Apoth> How else are work logs and stuff to be maintained.
Nov 08 20:23:46 <Cevelt> It has been suggested, on numerous occasions
Nov 08 20:23:54 <RedRaven-Apoth> *nods*
Nov 08 20:25:26 <RedRaven-Apoth> Ok... trying to figure out the Apoth to sell a custom (listed) basket . >.<
Nov 08 20:26:12 <RedRaven-Apoth> the "Custom Basket - Healer"
Nov 08 20:26:26 <RedRaven-Apoth> Do I just sell the items individually or...?
Nov 08 20:29:32 <Cevelt> if it shows up as an item then just use the item number for it.
Nov 08 20:29:43 <Cevelt> if it shows a 'list' of items that go into it, then sell them individually
Nov 08 20:30:40 <Cevelt> Ahh.. just sell it as 1741 item number dear
Nov 08 20:41:19 * Disconnected ().
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ehlanna on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:40 pm

Yes, it's one of those niggles - the grey area (of which there is SO much!) between the 'accuracy' of a fantasy pseudo-medieval world loosely based on the look/feel of Westen Europe, the playability of the game/setting and the fun to be had with it.
The fun aspect loses out as soon as any of the other two have any input.
Accuracy and fantasy ("oh look, mum, a cat girl, it followed me home, can I keep her ...") have an uneasy mix at the best of times!
Playability would seem to the the needed core to gain some level of sanity ...

With a token nod to accuracy the percentage of literate people would be minimal - those who NEEDED to read/write, such as Mages, Clerics, etc. would be about the only ones. Reading and writing grant power and as a rule TPTB (The Powers That Be) are not prone to play nicely and share ... :)

Now, to look at the actual question - do you NEED to be able to read and write to work in a shop? That is an interesting question. I used to work with someone who used to work for PoLA (Port of London Authority) and there used to be a system of marking crates, etc., with coloured shapes (red square, blue circle) which were used to identify the destination for those unable to read. So, yes. SOME jobs would not require literacy. However, some will. The need to read labels, make records, etc., are such that for a lot of jobs the need to be literate exists.
There are too many disparate jobs out there, with too many of them with the need for literacy, for a simple one-off rule that allows anyone to have any job or for a 'job by job' evaluation to be done. Thus, a trifle sadly, we default to a lower, common level and state a simple, "to have a job in TLI requires literacy".
What happens when you want a job but cannot read or write? The answer to that is simple, maybe not to your liking, but simple - get a level and use the new skill point you gain to take Read/Write Common.
In the meantime, working as a Freelancer may not require literacy - knowing what a herb or animal of the forest is, nor how to prepare it needs literacy.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:51 pm

Lylla, yes the average human in that time didn't really had much in the ways of literacy, just like there was no elves around and there was no such thing as magic. In fact it makes little sence that in a world where there is supposed to be so many magic users that literacy is something that low. Then again with the number of supposedly peasants which should ranks in millions within the empire alone, against characters which are what, maybe a hundred or so activly played, I don't think the rate of literacy would still be that high if we assume that only nobles and player characters are literate.

So it does make sence that every character can read/write their starting languages.

What makes no sence is that suddenly 90% of the database or more just became dumb all of a sudden and can't read/write anymore when it's something that's RPed every day. Again not to say that from a convinient point of view, and yes, this is a game so there should be at least a minimum of convinence, that everything is posted around town in notes and letters send by fae mail.

Also yes there are the jobs as refered by Ehl, Every single job, no matter which one it is requires the player to keep logs of what is done and those logs are required not just as an OOC matter but as something actually done ICly. So once more it makes complete sence that all characters start with the knowledge of reading and writing in their native and common languages. From there on, they have to learn as it would be expected.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby lyllamarie on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:55 pm

If marking the time is a worry, keeping a log can be as simple as making a scratch beneath your name. Most who do not know how to read, recognize their name by habit. That's how children learn, through habit and repetition.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby RedRaven on Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:57 pm

And since it seems that one NEEDS to be able to Read/Write to work in any shop, to work in the bar so that they know what drinks are to be served, to really do much of Anything at all work wise, aside from beg... that Read/Write should be well... common. Or just give everyone 4 slots to start out with and let Read/write come free.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:01 pm

When you actually have to mark acuratly how much time you have done, what you have done, a mark just ain't going to cut it.

As a guard for example you have to clearly make such things as writing reports. As a shop clerk you have not only to mark time, but you have to write out everything you sold and just how much money was put in the strongbox for each sale. this are very basic things that scratching a mark won't cover.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby lyllamarie on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:07 pm

It can be suggested that certain classes would come with the skill automatically. Such as Mages or Clerics, but I do not believe it would be necessary for all classes or everyone.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ehlanna on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:13 pm

One does not know everything, right from the start - some spells coudl be taught by rote, etc.. but eventually a Mage would very likely want to research on their own ...
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:20 pm

Just some classes would just make it unfair for anothers when it's already been seen clearly that all classes need it even for the daily life, just as much as they need to know how to even speak. I mean, what is really the problem if it only makes things much simpler for everyone along with much better. Everyone doesn't knows that they need to buy the skill and odds are that after they know, they'll just ignore it. Even before there was skills everyone knew how to read and write.

Ehl, yes one does not know everything from start, but we also ain't creating a 5 years old character. We should have enough skill points at start to beggin us on the world and I do belive that it was rather made point that any character can come into the game with one skill at master level to have full payment. This just means that you can't because you simply can't get work if you can't read/write.
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Re: Read/Write Common should be well... common.

Postby Tawny on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:07 pm

When the skills were first born one had to have the skill Tending to work as a clerk in a shop or as a bartender. The skills have grown but I have to say one thing, Everyone is worried about reading and writing to work somewhere. Well Since in the Role play land there is no Bot named desdaemona it would stand to reason, to me anyway, that IF one has to have the skills of reading and writing to work then also one should Have to have the skills of Mathematics as well. After all items have to be added up so that the person selling can give a total and know that they are getting the right amount of money for what is being purchased.
The skills were suppost to make RP more enhanced not more complicated. If things keep going the way this is heading just about everyone that works a job is going to have to redo their skills list. Wouldnt it be easier to just say that unless someone plays their char as not being able to do simply reading writing and Mathematics that since they are not childern they would have enough knowledge of each to do the simply jobs?
Just throwing my two coins worth into all this.
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