Belariath

While I understand what you say Tawny there are a few things to consider. First that everyone so far always considered to be able to read and write, inclusivly people often RP doing so because it was always assumed that skill to simply be there and frankly, it is needed for nearly every character in game. What is being asked it that the skill be part of starting skills as it was always assumed by players.

On the mathematics point I have to say you are overthinking it. If you think about it, even the most illiterate of person can pretty much handle money. They know the coins value and know how much things cost, they can do some basic math as long as you talk to them in money. Thei doesn't means they can do any advanced maths which is what the skill is intended for.

To be perfectly honest, it's up to the store to 'require' a specific skill aside from the recommended ones for payroll purposes. There 'are' ways to work around the inability to read or write, or to read and write well.

If the store manager says, no you do not need to be able to read but you will have to figure out how to fill this order, then that is at the manager's discretion. and I think it adds a certain interesting level to rp to see a character who isn't perfect-off-the-assembly-line-know-it-all kind of person.

and as to writing for logging purposes. what you put on the MB is primarily read OOCly by the shop manager, how its done ICly can vary as long as the manager is cool with it or understands it.

hehehe I like Ehl's word niggles...Thats funny...Must ask what the real definition of that is...Also, with Razy, I roleplayed with Isla (pre-slavery) of her learning to read from her. It was great! We went to one of the tower libraries and learned...Mathematics as well

And then yet Ehlanna just stated a little bit back that one HAD to have Read/Write to have ANY job.

How does one reconcile the difference in what the two of you OPly type people are saying?

Well it's up to the HC whether or not to discuss the mater since like it was pointed out, there are many reasons to make sence along with one which is to make things more convinient/easy for all players. It is my belive however that all players will simply either not know that they actually can't write/read or they will simply ignore the fact that it actually requires a skill because like pointed out, it makes a whole lot of difference. And sure, maybe it is fun to play an illeterate character which is why people should have the option of being or not illeterate. Making it by default is another thing altogether.

Anyway I will retire from this discussion, the HC will do as they think it's best.

Exactly my point Ishtori. I think this whole thing is being way over thought. I think if a person wishes to advance beyond simply reading writing and math then they would take the skills. If not then let stand assumed that they know the basics and enough to survive and get by in the land and times in which this game is set. If your char wants to make more money at a job look and see what ranked skills they need for that and get them. Use the unranked simply to enhance your own char.

Ok now its four coins worth.

what was the original question? did it get answered?

I dont know Yuka but the following is what happens when one can not read their own language..

Bad Recipe

A while back the inscription on the metal bands used by the U.S. Department of the Interior to tag migratory birds has been changed. The bands used to bear the address of the Washington Biological Survey, abbreviated "Wash. Biol. Surv." until the agency received the following letter from a camper:

"Dear Sirs:

While camping last week I shot one of your birds. I think it was a crow. I followed the cooking instructions on the leg tag and I want to tell you it was horrible."

The bands are now marked "Fish and Wildlife Service".

It wasn't a question Yuka, it was a sugestion that characters should come into play knowing how to read/write their starting languages.

That's the point ... they can, if they so want to! It's entirely likely that the majority of characters did not grow up within a stone's throw of Nanthalion. Thus they'd develop in a very, VERY rural environment. Quite possibly, unless there was a temple nearby only ever having HEARD of a book, let alone seen one or be able to read it!
Times were different, in this fantasy world so many years ago! Just to give you an idea of how different (this can be hard to do ...) try something that our lovely Kaytoo mentioned a while back. Go to a location you know well. Then remove ALL lighting (except star/moon-light, of course. If you can arrange those you need not bother with the rest of this ...). Dark, isn't it? I mean, really, truly, disorientatingly dark. Turn round a couple of times with your eyes closed and then open them again.
In medieval times this was the norm. When darkness fell the people came in from the fields. Living like this, learning skills by observation and direct, hands-on, tuition or apprenticeship does not need the ability to read or write.
So, yes, it is a bit of a bugger (a little niggle, just for Jinx!) to find that at creation you REALLY should have given your character a certain skill so that they could do all that super-cool stuff. But, life is like that! I wish I had done stuff a bit differently, paid more attention at school for some stuff, but that was then and I now know better and have, on my own time, made up some of the lacking.
You can do the same with your character, better in some ways as when you get to create a new character (if you do), then you can decide not to make the same 'mistake' - something I think most people would give much for!

I both agree and disagree. Hows that for fence sitting? On the one hand, I like to 'assume' if you are taking up a class that is going to insist you must read, and write, then take the skill. I'd also oddly assume, regardless of arguments, that a mage would take the time from when they know they want to cast a spell, to learn 'how' to read and write or.. just being taught basic hand signals is going to be a pain learning new spells now isn't it. So why its a skill, boggles me, its a simplistic enough thing and I've said so in the past. Perhaps a happy medium could be reached? Something such as a skillful writing reading 'skill' in and of itself. Such as, certain classes would automatically know the basics, but for more 'skill' you take a 'skill'. IF that makes a lick of sense.

we still have cleric, mage, bard and other base classes that are going in for a review, and its not uncommon to have common skills included with their advantages. keep that in mind when we put up requests for input on class revisions.

It's never really been an issue before but some players seem to need every loose corner of the carpet nailed down before they will walk on it. If anyone really cares that much, just make it an OOB spell or a cheap enchantment for those who want it.

@L

As far as skillful reading/writing vs. "unskillful" Well... that already Exists. The Scribe skill is the "Skilled/pretty" writing where the Unranked Skill is just the very basic ability.

It's a medieval world, paper is scare, schooling is even more scarce. However, it can be assumed, as in the real medieval world, that if people needed to write something they would ask someone who had the ability. SImilarly if they needed information off a notice, the word would pass aurally, or be repeated by bards and others. Or they could just ask someone who had the ability.

Whilst we don't stick to a strict medieval world which would be limiting, such things should be fairly obvious and can lead to additional roleplay.