just some issues that iv noticed

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just some issues that iv noticed

Postby TheVirgo on Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:50 am

Been looking at several of the really confusing systems in this game and ways to improve them. In fairness to the ops several of these systems were most likely added later to the game to add dimension to other aspects.

1. the freelancing system seems based in a broken economy. Since the majority of the players in game have no need to buy alot of the materials you can make most wont bother to buy them unless they are already friends with you or they are really attached to realistic rp which not everyone is. A way to solve this problem would be to have the nobles run an import export merchants guild, maybe make it take time and have the nobles take a portion of all sales. this way you can have people making large amounts of goods on lands and they wont immidiatly make too much money and they dont have to figure out how to make sales of things no one wants to spend money on.

2. the game world really ignores the implications of magic. from small things like magically created animals that arent riding dragons and such. one thing that could easily be done is with earth mages. create several spells that take hours to do but allow them to create mines, caves, even structures that are permanent but take time to cast. make the spells work with architect skills or require the materials to be present. magic would make several trades in the game world much easier or obsolete. Earth and water magic especially. Maybe make several trade spells that people could use for work such as farming, construction, and other instances. You could use druidic magic to make farming faster, water/earth/and fire magic to alter construction. the ideas woudnt be to hard to figure out spells just for several freelancing businesses. since most magic right now only applies to combat.

3. The system for trade skills is unexplained on the website and many people int he game including the ops dont seem to understand how the system works. Maybe putting in the character creation page an explanation of it or explaining how the ranks work in regards to advancing them. While skills arent required for character creation they do help expanded gameplay and should probably get a page for themselves.

4. letting higher level character use different dice than lower level ones in combat makes for a broken combat system where the game is skewed towards higher level characters. While understandable a bonus to rolls would have been much easier and more balanced instead of the higher numbers of dice. This has been a problem for several people and i know many people have prefered to use freeform instead of the dice system for this very reason.
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Re: just some issues that iv noticed

Postby Phaing on Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:49 am

Just 2 cents worth from a mere player-

1. sounds good, I've had a ships for years and was never able to do much of anything with it.
However, your adding a lot of work for the Nobles, many of whom might not want to deal with it. The good ones have a good deal on their plates already.
This is actually the best item on your list and for large-scale traders it would make a world of difference. Its a big world out there, but without trade to pay for exploration, nobody is going to be seeing much of it.

2. Not true, spend some time in the SS when the folks who run it are there. We do a LOT with majic, how else could you get a Hot Springs installed on your property just by paying the fee?

3. Talk about complications... feel up to submitting your own detailed suggestions for such a thing, and then administering the compliance required?

4. Since the bulk of Guests us Qdice, this isn't really much of an issue.
Yes, a high-level can just walk up and clip you (its happened to me, too) but how does that make this any different from D&D or a whole slew of other games?
Or reality for this sort of world, for that matter?
And, since free-form is an option, why worry?
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Re: just some issues that iv noticed

Postby TheVirgo on Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:56 am

Sushi wrote:Just 2 cents worth from a mere player-

1. sounds good, I've had a ships for years and was never able to do much of anything with it.
However, your adding a lot of work for the Nobles, many of whom might not want to deal with it. The good ones have a good deal on their plates already.
This is actually the best item on your list and for large-scale traders it would make a world of difference. Its a big world out there, but without trade to pay for exploration, nobody is going to be seeing much of it.

2. Not true, spend some time in the SS when the folks who run it are there. We do a LOT with majic, how else could you get a Hot Springs installed on your property just by paying the fee?

3. Talk about complications... feel up to submitting your own detailed suggestions for such a thing, and then administering the compliance required?

4. Since the bulk of Guests us Qdice, this isn't really much of an issue.
Yes, a high-level can just walk up and clip you (its happened to me, too) but how does that make this any different from D&D or a whole slew of other games?
Or reality for this sort of world, for that matter?
And, since free-form is an option, why worry?


1. well they could run it like any other business and make someone manager. hell id be glad to run this business.

2. and i meant more of the world behind it and things people can do. iv asked about spells that can be used in daily life like farming and the ops told me they dont exist.

3 well i mostly meant explaining how they work to people. after i got them explained to me it made alot of sense but i had to go through a lot of people before i figured it out.

4. and yeah i know qdice removes it as an issue in basics. it doesnt fix that gear is not repressented and that the dice system can make someone 3 levels above you practically invincible. its not a matter of being broken because they are higher level its that the higher level people...let me use an example. a lvl 1 character uses d6's while a lvl 5 uses d9's if i remember right. this means that unless the lvl 5 rolls really badly every roll he will always win. now if the higher level person just dice a dice bonus it woudnt be a problem and would help balance the problem but as it stands when rolling an attack against armor the lower level player will always lose even if the higher level player has the same gear. because they use different dice to determine combat
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Re: just some issues that iv noticed

Postby Phaing on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:48 am

Once again, speaking as a six-year player and not official in any way...

It sounds to me like your really on track with #1. It would also be a popular thing with both the Nobles and us peons.
Farms and such, not so much.

I suggest that you get together with the Reeve IC-ly, this sort of thing is what we have one for, after you have formulated a plan with enough detail behind it to get, and hold, the Reeve's attention.
Once you have one problem solved, or at least have given it your best shot, move on to the next thing.
If you still have the energy.

Good luck!
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Re: just some issues that iv noticed

Postby Stormbringer on Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:33 pm

1. We have always recognised the problem of freelancers selling things to players who just want to shag and go. That is why they can always sell their products to the relevant shop instead. The only requirement is that the freelancer shows how they buy, make or acquire the tools and raw materials, and that they can show they have put the roleplay time into creating the finished products.

This is to avoid the 'one line creation give me lots of money' type of abuse which would undermine the time put in by those who work actual shop jobs.

We also do what we can to encourage freelance by notifying new players that their character arrives with just the clothes they are wearing and the basic items gifted by the creation menu. Similarly a new home is just that, not a fully furnished showhome. People either make use of this or ignore it though.

2. Magic is an inherent part of the world and small, non-combat magic doesn't need to be learned. It is present in the genetic makeup of all characters (even though Warlords tend to reject it) and is characterised by OOB spellcasting. However, that does present a temptation to use magic to short-cut every part of daily life; something with would tend to pauperize roleplaying opportunities. Of course it can be used inventively and it can (and does) reduce a lot of the drudgery associated with what could be seen as a medieval existence in a world free of magic. But simply waving a magic wand to solve every little problem and perform every household task is seen as a negative which reduces immersion in the daily life of a character living in this world.

Naturally we don't expect players to spend all their time digging the vegetable garden and emptying the cess pit. But by placing some fairly arbitrary limits on what OOB magic can achieve, via the selection of spells available, we aim to a) show a development of individual skills by adding new spells via levels and b) leave room for characters to be able to perform tasks which may not be that interesting but which can be hooks upon which to swing into more creative play.

For simple examples, why shouldn't the elf girl be able to magically summon firewood instead of having to go into the wood and collect it? Why should the maiden have to physically travel from her home to the Inn instead of wishing herself there? Well, because both activities provide a natural reason to put her into a place where she could meet others and interact with them.

So, no, the world isn't perfect by a long way and we recognise that. It does creep forwards by the suggestions made by the players here as well as the work done by developers and after about 12 years it is very much the patchwork quilt of everyone who has left their mark on it. But along the way some of the basic assumptions and abilities already inherent in the world do tend to get obscured.

I wouldn't want to put anyone off from wanting to put in ways to make it better, or in helping to do more by joining the dev team, or by helping to clarify unclear sections of the web site. It's your game as much as it is ours. Sometimes though, the answer may already exist, either in whole, or in part, or in an explanation of why it wouldn't fit the overall rationale of Belariath, and I hope my answer has helped some in that respect.
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