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Logolar wrote:I didn't even take enchantments into consideration with this discussion, but any class can get the enchantments. I as a warlord could get the phyiscal armor, and the magical armor and have them stack with my regular defense enchantments. I don't do that for IC reasons, but I could.
Logolar wrote: Also my last question was based on WHY his stats were better then mine, Crow.
Logolar wrote:I assumed he did in fact buy the 15 slot spell, and didn't spend stat points on it.
Logolar wrote:Yes, we can buy stat potions to make our stats better, but it's rather expensive. Also, why should I buy more equipment slots? You get enough free ones for armor, weapons, and even slaves. Sure if you have a lot of slaves you do have to spend more, but I have more then enough without spending any points in it.
Logolar wrote:Also, I just did the average that way because it's not about how many points I put into it. I just looked at the over all average. Each time I put a point into stam I had to put two because no other stats required one. Sure, my stat is rather high, but it won't be getting any higher.
Logolar wrote:To clarify the question better. He has a mage class, but little to no spells. He didn't take any ranged spells, he took one defense spell that he cannot use, but nothing that really makes him much of a mage. He has those advantages by ignoring the things that make him a mage. So why take the mage class when in order to compete stat wise you need to completely ignore your spells.
Logolar wrote:It wouldn't have the same total stats, unless it bought all the prerequisites with mhl. They are two 10 slots spells that go into getting fireball. Air mage also has that with thier spells, and even earth mage with some. The only one who doesn't require stuff like that is Water mage, but that's a whole new bucket of bolts. Bottom line is, if they don't spend any points in spells, yes. The mage will have the same ammount of points, but that's rather rare. Most at least spend the points to buy slots 10-15, even if they buy everything else themselves. It doesn't add up to much, but over time it changes.
Also, yes...The mage can get a +15 to attack, and our defense can only be about 30 if we min and max, but then stats come into play. If they are both even, but why would they be? After a certain point you don't need stam and life anymore. The mage on the other hand will spend 16 stam, or more a round casting that spell.
I hit that point on stam, but still need more life duel to double damage spells. In that case they would have an advantage, but I cannot tell you the amount of times I have seen it. I've never faced a similar level mage that I didn't have a chance with. I win more often then not, but I didn't really see that until I hit level 20 or so. I had what, six or seven deaths before that. (Not all due to fighting similiar levels though.) In my case it has been fairly balanced, and rarely do 15 points make too much of a difference. Random dice being what they are, with enough life...You are ok. !damage rolls usually suck anyway.
Logolar wrote:See, Fire bolt is a mage spell. That's why I didn't take it into consideration. You have to buy it and get the 15 points in it before you hit fire mage. If you do not, you do not get the spell. Even resets don't help you with this. You -still- need the spell before you choose to become a fire mage. So you wouldn't get the 14 free spell points, you would instead either have to invest the mhl. Which is 5450. I don't remember having that kind of money at level 1-9. Sure, I can only get +6 to say AGI for the similar pay, but it works on every spell they might have. So if they were to stay a basic mage, sure...They could use the free spells to get fire bolt, but then the stat difference from being a basic class comes into play.
Logolar wrote:Still, with reset. Unless I am wrong, you have to complete it in order to play your character, so you couldn't buy it during that time,
but this is starting to go round and round.
People can get free spells at the sacrifice of everything else. Then can make mages that have equal stat points. It's rare, but it can happen. They could in that situation make it so there stats are balanced. Instead of the heavy hitters that most people try to be.
Then can get the same amount of physical defense as a warrior, with maybe a little difference because we have better armor. Magical defense for both is the same, but they get +15 to attack for it, but at the same time. You don't attack their magical defense so it doesn't matter much.
All of that doesn't really matter, because it's about what players do. They spend points in spells. They focus on hitting heavy instead of defense. They don't get enough stam to use their build. To get the extra to physical attack, and magical attack they are spending 30 stam. They don't get enough life to handle more then one or tow hits because -it's not important- instead they focus on trying to knock people out. So I look at it as balanced because of my experience with it. I have lost randomly to lower levels, and won with higher levels, but that doesn't matter. I have the knowledge of dice because I'm that type of person, but I'm here ultimately for the play. The difference of 3 points or even 15 isn't going to make much of a difference when I'm rolling anywhere from 0-160. Only during low levels did this really effect me, now it's just flavor. I prefer FF so I can get more story, and so that the fights aren''t so scripted.
Logolar wrote:See, you're factoring money into a stat discussion. You're not giving the warrior the same consideration. They can spend the same amount of money that the mage is spending on all of these spells. They would then easily outclass the other.
It's only +6 (almost 7) per +15 slot that the person is getting, but if they do this with three spells you've already made up the difference.
You chose cat person, which has the most
spell slots. You did not take into consideration that some of them are OOB spells.
You mentioned buying for reset, you did not take into consideration that you can only choose so many spells per level up section upon a reset.
All of these things have to be taken into consideration. -Yes- with the money a mage can become horribly over powered, but so can a physical class.
Logolar wrote:I was referring to stay potions.
Also that's only for one spell. When is the last time you saw a mage with one spell? Most of the time they buy slots 1-10 and spend the points on getting the 15 slots.
If you are using the physical or magic armor they either had to buy the spell, enchantment or slots.
Also crystal sword has class and race limitations.
Logolar wrote:I am mentioning Stat potions because it's a viable alternative that -physical classes- can buy. For every spell that the magic class decides to bring to +15 they can afford 6.8 potions.
Also, it's an easy thing to pump your spare cash into.
Also you are mentioning the cost of the piece a warrior decides to place the +5 atk to, but not what the focus enchant is being placed on.
Also, in this case. If the person were to get the 15 slot spell. At level five you would have to dump 20 stat points just into stam. 16 for the spell, 2 for defending from the other, and two more so you can evade. This would then bring your stats below the warriors, thus making up the difference.
Logolar wrote:Also, if you don't believe me that some of the slots on creation are OOB, Create a character. I know for a fact that they are.
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