Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Questions and suggestions about the rules of the roleplay and how things work

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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby L`aquera on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:05 pm

:shock:

She didn't say, no no no I want it all under my control. Pull on the reigns and be a lil more gentle there!

What I see is her pointing out the system and what was tried in the past.

And I hope people think more of the ISA other then pay your money and walk away.. Several points of interest here are;

Enforcement
Stealing and Damaging Slaves
(OOC Note: The full OOC permission of all concerned must exist for most of the following, else the role play is nullified and never happened.)

If a registered slave is reported stolen, then the Slave Authority will investigate. Should they find the allegations to be true, the slave will be found and returned, with the abductor punished as appropriate. The Authority will call on such assistance as it needs for this and will pay the necessary fees.
If a registered slave is reported raped or damaged without the owners consent, then the Authority may investigate. Should they find the allegations to be true, they will take appropriate action against the assailant using Imperial enforcers.

When ISA employees note a slave being publicly harmed in a way that goes beyond reasonable punishment, training or use of such property, they may require the owner to stop. In extreme cases, they may remove that slave and place her with a slaver for sale to a new owner.
Note that the Lonely Inn has a standing arrangement with the empire. Stealing, abducting or permanently damaging an Inn slave results in an automatic bounty placed on the perpetrator; that bounty is payable only on permanent death without resurrection.
Misbehaving Slaves

Owners of slaves who persistently behave in public in a manner unbecoming of their status will find themselves warned. If the owner does not take action to train their slave in proper public demeanor, the Authority may require that owner to place his slave with a slaver for training. The cost of this is met by the slave owner, who may also be required to take lessons in slave control.

Benefits of Registration

The slave must wear a character collar in TLI in the form of <name{Owner Abbreviation}> signifying their status.

The owner's name will be shown in a slave description via Desdaemona.
A slave owner gets the security of having the empire protect his property from harm where needed, especially when he is absent.

Should a slave be abducted, the Authority will pay all fees for a bounty hunter to effect their recovery and for any punishment of the abductor.
Slaves have the knowledge that they can approach officials for help if their owner mistreats them beyond reasonable limits.

Slaves do not pay the standard 10Mh/month for room and/or board as they are considered fed and housed by their owner.

Registration
Registration as a slaver costs 100 Mh and includes a starter kit comprising:
One slave merchandise collar
Restraints
Whip and paddle

Continued registration costs 20 Mh monthly which is automatically deducted from the slaver's bank account.
A second merchandise collar may be purchased for a further 100 Mh. No more than two merchandise slaves can be held at any one time.

Benefits of Becoming a Licensed Slaver
The slaver may use merchandise collars instead of standard slave collars. These take a single equipment slot and show the slave is for sale.

Slavers do not pay the 10 Mh / month ownership fee on merchandise slaves.
Slaves sold by Slavers are waived the normal waiting week.
Licensed slavers may sell slaves via the auctions at a reduced fee.
Licensed slavers may charge slave owners for enhanced training of their slaves.
Licensed slavers are likely to gain higher prices for their products as these slaves are assumed to be well trained prior to sale.

The ISA assumes a licensed slaver is experienced enough to be able to retain his property by force but may step in for serious assaults or thefts. (OOC Note: Slavers are expected to be level 5 or above and able to handle minor combat for themselves)

The ISA will assist in the recapture of slaves who escape or who are stolen.

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Found all on the Site for Bel..

It doesn't seem like an outlandish fee, but she's already said she's willing to cut that down and I can agree with that.

My next point may shock folks... but, Tawny doesn't make up the rules of her shop. We of the Admin, do. So being frustrated with her is likely a mote point. She simply manages and runs it and has always done an exceptional job in this. This is why I asked folks discuss it so we could see what we did or did not wish to do while being provided thoughts by those that are slavers and those buying from slavers.

I'm sure SB will weigh in as I've asked HC to have a peek at this topic as I felt it more then relevant. Thank you :)
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Benefits of Becoming a Licensed Slaver
The slaver may use merchandise collars instead of standard slave collars. These take a single equipment slot and show the slave is for sale.

Slavers do not pay the 10 Mh / month ownership fee on merchandise slaves.
Slaves sold by Slavers are waived the normal waiting week.
Licensed slavers may sell slaves via the auctions at a reduced fee.
Licensed slavers may charge slave owners for enhanced training of their slaves.
Licensed slavers are likely to gain higher prices for their products as these slaves are assumed to be well trained prior to sale.


Slavers don't pay the 10mhl a month 'ownership' however they -do- pay -20- mhl a month -Even If The Collar Is Empty- solely for the right to call themselves a Slaver.
Slaves sold by slavers are waived the normal waiting week ... Sure, that's true... The normal waiting week for the collar to be applied. However, as even Tawny has pointed out ... If a -Slaver- takes a slave, there is a -Minimum- of two weeks -required- to stay under the Merch Collar because of training purposes. So really, waiving that week is a moot point because the buyer needs to wait -two- weeks to get the slave from a slaver.
Slavers may sell slaves at a reduced fee at auctions... They also may sell slaves on their own outside of 'auctions' without a fee, and even having a fee for slavers to sell at auctions seems counter productive to being able to hold a solid auction at all.
Slavers may charge for enhanced training ... They may indeed, they may indeed... But that would actually require there to be some incentive to having a slaver -do the training- rather than an individual putting the collar on themselves and 'training the slave how I like' ... Which is the basic ... I don't particularly want to use this term but it's the most applicable... cop out that I keep hearing when I try to suggest people go through actual slavers. 'Why would I have someone else train my slave when I can do just as good on my own and pay less.'... I have -literally- heard that line no less than a dozen times when trying to promote using slavers.
Slavers are likely to gain higher prices ... Indeed, if you're lucky enough to find someone willing to go into the storyline roleplay of hiring a slaver... See my comment immediately above.

This is all personal experience as a Slaver who has tried many times to be able to roleplay out the Slaving aspect of TLI.

As to the rest of your quote from the site, none of that is up on contention at all and -would not even change- if the suggested alterations in the way things work were implemented in any way. The ISA -still gets their taxes and paperwork- the ISA -still enforces protection against unreasonable abuse and theft of property(slaves)- and is -still- the prime nexus in which all the information about slaves and owners goes through to become 'recognized'

Also, nobody is frustrated -at- Tawny, we all know she just has a page of rules she has followed since she took over the ISA. What -is- frustrating, is regurgitating the same spiel without actually seeming to consider that changes to what she's been following might actually be a good/healthy thing and might actually work out better (Even for Her, several of these changes would lighten the load of her responsibilities and also would give ISA workers some long-needed -fun- rp interaction choices beyond stamping a file for anyone who needs them for an hour to get things officiated.)
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:08 pm

I'm a bit confused now...

In the Original Post (which I don't feel is being addressed at all) and most of the points listed out for possible change have barely been touched upon. What I'm actually seeing is a lot of "This is what the rules are and they're fine'. Which, is technically correct, but again as I have stated... and feel a bit repetative now... things change and change doesn't have to be bad.

Most of the rules my post is only seeking to modify slightly, offering another perspective and option as a suggestion. As Tawny herself stated - She has tried things and they haven't worked. So would that not lead the to conclusion that something new like this may actually be a viable option?

I don't see the point of repeating what I've already typed out because it feels like it's not being considered at this point. The Original Post and my subsequent response to L'aquera and Tawny already detailed explanations in hopes of clarifying. If I have failed to do so, or was overly wordy, my apologies.

As I had thought was made clear, I would like to help. And, not claiming that Tawny is trying to maintain control, but that is kinda what it looks like. She does not seem interested in discussing this as an option, only refutting it and reemphasizing the current standing system. L'aquera supports her, defends as well - which... I don't understand. I was not attacking Tawny in any way and I am seriously distressed to think anything I said was taken as an aggressive overture.

Events regarding slavery are all well and good, but they are one-off ideas for fun, not a consistent improvement on what currently exists. Also, they are limited to people only being able to engage in them -if- they can get online at the exact time it is being run (Which excludes many people with jobs, families and different time zones such as Germany/South Africa being 7 hours behind, England is.. 6 I believe?).

Further, the Slave for a Week Auction is now suddenly being activated, which also feels like an attempt to invalidate this topic as "Look here, clearly we're doing stuff for the Slavers!" I hope that is not the case, as I would personally love to be involved in it.

However, if a High Council and the Head of the ISA are showing such resistance, it does not bode well for this idea, or any regarding Slavers or anything related to the ISA.

I digress, however, as I feel right now there is nothing I can add or say that I have not already done to improve the standing of this topic. I will of course, answer any direct questions or concerns still.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby L`aquera on Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:23 pm

I'm not resisting dear, I'm just pointing out what is there now. If I were resisting, I wouldn't have even looked twice at this thread. I'm very blunt and I don't mince my words. The one thing I am not doing, is overlooking the point here. Not sure where that got lost. Its why I asked HC to chime in, as I find the whole of it, very valid indeed. There is never anything wrong with change, but we must tread carefully on which changes are made ;)
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Farvel on Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:29 pm

I won't go through everything as a lot has already been said, but I have to stress this point:

Joytoy wrote:#1. Anyone not a Slaver cannot 'enslave' another character.
If desiring an individual as a slave (with OOC permission from both parties) a Slaver must be commissioned.
A prospective Master/Mistress may seek to 'collar' their own slave, if they pay 800 mehrials and submit the slave to a two week training course with a Slaver or ISA representative of their choice. This must contain a minimum of 4 hours of in character training, posted as a work log to the Slaver's Work Log Post.
Slaves may only be released back to Slavers, who will then verify if they need retraining before reselling, or if they should be freed due to inadequate ability to be a good slave. (No Charge)


This I am completely opposed to. To a lot of people, half the fun of owning a slave is in the enslaving process itself: the act of searching for, stalking, and capturing and/or "convincing" someone to be enslaved, or being on the receiving end of this series of events. The connection between master and slave is a personal connection, starting from the point of why that specific master/mistress chose that specific person to enslave, and why that slave chose that specific owner (if they were given a choice at all, of course).

This is the reason most people choose to do their own enslaving rather than going through one of the official slavers: simply paying someone to have a slave delivered on a silver plater ruins the whole personal aspect of it. The same is true if you convince someone to be your slave, but then have to surrender possession of them to someone else for 2 weeks. That is not to say people don't resort to slavers, but this is and always should be an option. To force people to have to resort to slavers in order to get a slave would ruin the RP fun for a lot of people, or force everyone to become a registerd slaver just so they can do the capturing, which would dilute the slaver profession entirely until it becomes meaningless.

That said, we often see posts on the board with characters registering themselves to be captured by slavers. And I'm guessing there are a lot more willing to do so that don't write on the board. I'm sorry, but if slavers feel they're not getting enough RP, they only have themselves to blame. As with everything else in this game, you get as much or as little RP as you go looking for.

----

As for the rest, I really don't see what all the fuss is about. If you buy a used car from someone, the new ownership still has to be registered with the DMV. The ISA is the "DMV" of slaves. There's nothing stopping you from simply putting a collar on someone and calling them your "slave", but if it's not a registered slave, then anyone can simply capture and register that slave as theirs and you have no claim. And if a slave is registered to a slaver, then until the new owner registers the purchase they are still officially the slaver's property.

At most, you could argue that the slaver shouldn't have to be physically present at the ISA and that the owner could simply go there with a signed proof of purchase to register the slave. That would make sense, and remove the hassle of needing to get 4 people (owner, slave, slaver and ISA staff) online all at once.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:12 pm

To L`aquera:

Thank you for the clarification, I'm sorry if my post was disheartened and pushy. I do greatly appreciate the thread being looked at, and your directness. It is easier to deal with knowing what to work on than being in the dark.

To Farvel:

There is the addendum - of being able to still enslave your own desired person without use of a slaver.
The options as relating to the system of the Original Post are:

#1. Become a slaver yourself, then you can do so and after the 'merchandise collar' is processed for one week, you can permanently register that person as your private slave.

#2. Pay the higher price for enslaving your own slave.

#3. RP interacting with the person you want as your slave, hunting, teasing, manipulating so forth and then merely contact a slaver to make it 'official'.

Now, granted, the 800 mehrials I listed was an off the cuff number, but it is not that unreasonable for someone that has any job in TLI to accomplish. That being said, after evaluating the numbers and so forth, I believe I'd like to make an edit to my original post of dropping the price for a non-Slaver individual to collar their own property as: 400-500 mehrials.

This is not an unrealistic amount, considering any player can make 5x20 (if they take Ranked paying skills and have a job) = 100 mehrials/mo for only ONE hour of work. You rp working any more than that, you make 20xhours worked. I have personally seen level 1 players here earn over 500 mehrials in their first month of RP and working a job. Sure, that's 20 hours of RP, but in a month, that's super easy to manage, considering you could be working and meeting people IC, including prospective slaves, Slavers, friends and enemies.

The statement:
Farvel wrote:
This is the reason most people choose to do their own enslaving rather than going through one of the official slavers: simply paying someone to have a slave delivered on a silver plater ruins the whole personal aspect of it.
is an opinion of your own, and I'm sure others, but not actually a fact.

Farvel wrote:
That said, we often see posts on the board with characters registering themselves to be captured by slavers.


Registering themselves to be captured by slavers? That doesn't actually make sense, as an individual desiring to be merchandise collared can't just 'register' to a slaver willy-nilly. Also, it does not mean that:
A. The prospective slave is getting collared in character.
-and-
B. Does not mean that a post was made in the Slaver's thread in the ISA section of the forums - which is where everything is validated and approved by Tawny and Tyjir. Which, as anyone can go look - is a very inactive area overall.

Furthermore I am not a slaver. In fact, I haven't seen any slaver, other than Menhir post about liking the idea and yet he did not 'complain' about not getting enough RP, he stated the facts regarding why people actually would do their own enslaving verses going through a slaver. Logically. Factually. That is a bit of a gross generalization regarding all Slavers. No problem is one sided, which I'm striving very hard to make clear and not lay blame on any party regarding this topic.

And... really while slaves are 'property' here, I believe using the analogy of the DMV for cars is a bit tacky. Especially as enslaving is, as you said:
Farvel wrote: The connection between master and slave is a personal connection...
Which I whole heartedly agree with and love (hence I would not have collared characters ICly) but it does not mean my relationship with my slaver-bought-slave is going to be -less- of a connection because I did not hunt her down myself.

Farvel wrote:
At most, you could argue that the slaver shouldn't have to be physically present at the ISA and that the owner could simply go there with a signed proof of purchase to register the slave. That would make sense, and remove the hassle of needing to get 4 people (owner, slave, slaver and ISA staff) online all at once.


That statement above quite literally goes completely against anything I have said. It would indicate even -less- ISA involvement. Which, I am opposed to. The Original Post is for the purpose of more actively integrating everything, not separating Slavers from the ISA more than they currently are.

Also, as of how the ISA works right now - you as an owner, can go without your slave to the ISA (as long as all the appropriate consent posts have been made on the forums and approved by authorized ISA staff members) and register them and pay the fees associated.

This does not work as well for the process of buying from a Slaver, because they would then be giving their 'merchandise' to the buyer who has to then still go to the ISA to register a slave they bought - making two steps to the process. Which again is more inconvenient than the one step for collaring your own, cheaper slave.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Tawny on Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:01 pm

Well I have registered slaves bought from slavers and I don't now nor have I ever required the slaver to be there at the time of registering the slave gotten from the slaver. IC all Tawny or any worker of the ISA needs is a written proof of sale from the slaver Since its posted on the slaver thread and then on the registering thread that it is a slaver sold slave in the first place.
I am not going to sit here and defend myself from the accusations some have made here. As for the Slave for a week, No no and no. I have planning this and a festival with Tyjir and Joe Ic for some time now. Slavers have always been welcome to sell their merchant slaves at these auctions.
Now I could set here and sling mud but that isn't me and never will be. But it seems abit odd to me to want a slaver to catch a slave but not train the slave. The MIN two weeks was put in the rules so that both the slaver and the one being caught were assured some RP would take place not only for the one caught but for the slaver as well. Its not supposed to be all about the money. Its supposed to be about RP between the two or even the three. Nothing says a Slaver cant have the buyer there to watch or maybe even help in the training of the Merchant slave.
I have known slavers to sale their Merchant slaves and Tawny has never asked for a fee and never would she ever. Tho this was something said and done IC so those who what to sling mud might not have seen this happening.
But I will stand firm on not everyone being to be a slaver and that slavers should not be able to officially register slaves. They are free lance workers and should remain so. If that is taken as, I wish to keep control, then so be it BUT sometimes there are things that really don't need everyone into it simply because of the need for record keeping and knowing the exact who and what of it. I am sorry but the ISA is one of those places.
For those who think I have never done anything to change anything about the ISA since I was giving the position of Head Mistress then again I say that not everything is put out in bold black and white lettering but does take place in the background and oh yes there is some of it in bold black and white on the website.
Lastly as was said by Farval many many times I have seen post by people asking for slavers to collar their chars. It mostly goes unanswered. This is not due to the fee Slavers pay because, well they have been paying it all along. Its not because they cant do everything including register the slave.. which is not their place because well again it never has been. It really seems to come down to a couple factors in the game. One being who the person offering the char is, and second that for the most part those who have a slavers license just don't really seem all that interested in rp that part anymore. Why? Well Really alot of the problem is lack of interest in buying a Merchant slave because the price the slavers ask is way too high and as I has already stated in another post... the slavers collar a char then don't want to put in the time to train but would rather, as seemed to have been suggested in this thread. go out grab and sale the next day because training for two weeks is just too much work.
So maybe before you go thinking you know me and you don't, and making your false accusations about me, you should do more time really seeking out the reasons that the Slavers stuff isn't really working.

So again my 2 cents worth. And just a foot note here... Just because you don't happen to see the rp or be a part of rp does NOT mean it isn't happening. I was honored when Stormbring and L`aquera asked me many years ago to take over the ISA and I am still just as honored by that today. And yes I will resist ideas that I feel would harm this game. And trying to tell everyone they have to use a slaver to get a slave knocks chunks out of Might Makes Right... the very essence of The Lonely Inn.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:02 am

I've said what I feel I needed to say. Anything further will just be redundant considering everything that's been said has been said before and doesn't seem to be changing. And any more might just be perceived as badgering or belittling and would take away from the potential this thread actually does have to get some changes made.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Ehlanna on Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:12 am

It's late again, though not as late as last time, but I have also not read it all again ...! ;)

Some things which I will toss in, just because (and this is what I think, maybe not as is or will be):
ISA to be 'included' in any slave transaction: be that purchase from a licenced slaver or by catching one yourself. There HAS to be a central clearing house for this, if only for the very simple reason that at time players suffer sanctions of not being able to have slaves (for a variety of reasons). Having ISA as the clearing house allows that to be enforced.
The grace periods between stating the desire to collar and actually having it done is an OOC artifice - very much akin to the 28-day return guarantee you might get when buying a tea-pot (yes, a slave is very much like a tea-pot ... ;)), but to protect both the putative owner AND the tea-pot, er slave. What might have seemed right and wondrous in the first blush of RP might seem a touch tarnished in the light of day - for so many reasons. For that, and other reasons, a grace period should exist. I know we are now all of a 'must have it now' society, but it is not much to ask to have a modicum of patience.
Slavery is a key component to life within the Empire, and it will endure. It adds RP possibilities in many ways, including the finding and purchasing of slaves, and we are, after all, a RP group. Anything that promotes or enhances the potential of RP is good in my books. Almost every slave taken under the auspice of the Inn has been asked 'why are you a slave?' That is 'simply' to provide an RP hook to get them out of slavery or sell them on. Maybe their debt can be bought out, etc., etc. Yes, you could just chat to someone in OOC or PM: "wanna be ma slave?" "hells yeah!" or you could actually go the further inch and proceed to RP that out. Maybe hire a registered slaver, "go forth and find me an innocent cat girl ... um, ok, at least one whose eyes have not turned white..."
Should we introduce changes to things? Yes, if they are things that are kept to the feel of the channels, the wishes of the owner and HC and can be accomplished within the framework we have.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby miyuka on Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:27 am

It made me realize that there is no benefit to the job/classification of Slaver.


That's a matter of opinion, firstly. Not every aspect of the game is for every person. could their be improvements? absolutely.

#1. Anyone not a Slaver cannot 'enslave' another character.


This I'm 100 percent against. There are so many RP related opportunities that are involved here. No. Just no.


#2. Merchandise Collar Restrictions

This area is an interesting start, nothing really to say here other than of course it'd need some further discussing and tweaking if such a system were accepted.

#3. Registering & Selling Merchandise Slaves

Some interesting points here, though I don't agree with the required work hours, nor the increase to slave value, though I can see where you're going with it.

#4. Continued Presence of the ISA & Slave Pens

No nit picks here

All in all I'd be against the changes. I'm all for looking at ways to promote more RP in aspects of the game but this feels more like forcing it, by taking away from other aspects of the game. I can understand the frustration of having to get the slave registered through the ISA after a sale, but that's one of those OOC things that kinda end up bleeding into the IC aspect of the game as well. I must also stress that this is a player run game, meaning shops and services and things of that nature can only happen if actual players are there so sometimes some areas can seem less populated that others, regardless of how many changes, small or drastic that are made. IF anything I'd rather see maybe gradual changes to how much OOC ability the slavers have in this area.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Stormbringer on Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:42 pm

Rules may not always be obvious in their intent but they exist after discussion. Nine times from ten they also exist to block a perceived or actual abuse of the system. So a slaver is required to keep a merch slave a set time in order to represent some value in their training instead of just catching and keeping in limbo until they are sold, for example.

The system is all intended to promote roleplay first and foremost. No changes will be made to reduce that aspect, as with mosst facets of the game.

Now I will also say, I am not going to do anything at all to penalise players who want to play out the personal capture and training of a slave. That, not slavers, is one of the cornerstones of this game.


Within that stricture, if we can make slavers more popular, I am always ready to listen to ideas, providing they are not written in purple text! However, what we have found is that few players want to have a slave captured by a slaver, regardless of the system. That is unlikely to change.

My own feelings are that I want to see slavers using the auction block to sell their merchandise, rather than private sales. That would be far more realistic. I would also like to see a system where slavers can hold merchandise longer (not shorter) and make money by renting out their slaves for a day, a week, or longer. I would also like the owners of slaves to be able to go to a slaver and have that slaver find customers to hire their slave for limited periods. Maybe for a special event where the host needs a lot of slaves, or just for personal use. Profits to be split between the owner and the slaver.

Again the purpose is to create roleplay foremost, not to provide money for slavers.

Now, put your combined feelings into a joint effort, post it in a legible format, and I promise HC will consider it carefully and make such changes as we feel appropriate for the game mechanics and the 'look and feel' of the game.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Farvel on Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:14 pm

Joytoy wrote:Registering themselves to be captured by slavers? That doesn't actually make sense, as an individual desiring to be merchandise collared can't just 'register' to a slaver willy-nilly.

I meant OOC registering, sorry, I thought that was obvious enough.

Joytoy wrote:And... really while slaves are 'property' here, I believe using the analogy of the DMV for cars is a bit tacky.

I don't think it is TBH. As far as the Empire is concerned, a slave is a piece of property like a car or a horse or a house, to be registered as such. The owner may of course feel quite differently, but that's besides the point here. Until you register the slave with the ISA, your ownership is not recognized by the Empire, and anyone can lay claim to the slave. Also, an owner is responsible for anything illegal done by the slave, as it's the owner's job to keep the slave "in line", so the Empire needs to keep track of which slave beongs to whom in order to track the owners and hold them accountable.

Joytoy wrote:Especially as enslaving is, as you said:
Farvel wrote: The connection between master and slave is a personal connection...
Which I whole heartedly agree with and love (hence I would not have collared characters ICly) but it does not mean my relationship with my slaver-bought-slave is going to be -less- of a connection because I did not hunt her down myself.

Maybe you don't, but others will. Which is why I said resorting to a slaver should always remain optional.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Tawny on Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:11 am

I have known slavers to hold auctions to sell their Merchants slaves before and have no problem with at all and in fact if a slaver wishes the ISA would be more than willing to help in said auction if the need is there.
Now I would like to ask Stormbringer for clarification On one things he has said. The renting out of a merchant slave for personal use... This needs to be made clear that the personal use may not be for sex because As per Stormbringers written rule sex of money is NOT allowed. As far as how long a slaver may keep a Merchant slave under the Merchant collar I am thinking the two week MIN should remain and maybe double the MAX time for 6 weeks to 3 months. That is just my idea to start. Since a slaver doesn't pay a monthly fee for the slave under the merchant collar and if you break it down the 20 monthly fee for a slavers license would only cover 2 months time in a normal monthly fee then 3 months is giving them a month free per say.
Again this is just my ideas to start.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Stormbringer on Sun Sep 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Sex for money is disallowed in the form of prostitution - a character offering to cyber another in return for Mh. I don't think it should apply if a slave owner wishes to collect a fee for hiring out an owned slave but the Ops will of course be watching such transactions to prevent abuse of the system. The purpose would be primarily to encourage roleplay. Also to expand the role of slavers and merchandise slaves. to make it more attractive for players.

Personally I would restrict this to slavers and they would be bound to hiring out any slaves they kept long term, to prevent the merch collar being used as a way to gain personal slaves.

It's a small distinction but a valid one I think. The rule was brought in as a couple of players were offering IC cyber for money, which is not in the spirit of TLI and took advantage of new players who were finding it difficult to get play.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:54 pm

I was in general, not aware that a coloration of text in order to attempt to make it stand out more was not considered a legible format... considering I numbered and bullet-pointed and spell checked...

I modified the original post - I used red to stress what I had modified as well as made notes.

Again, to everyone - I'm not saying to remove the option for players to enslave their own slaves.

But, again after reading all the posts following... and while I appreciate Farvel actually addressing topics, I cannot clarify anything more if it is not being read. Fixating on -one- line of the original post does not actually change or progress this. I am -clear- now on the fact. Can everyone else be clear that I never said 100% to take away a player's right to enslave without a slaver?

In the end, it was worth a shot. Thank you for looking.
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