Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Questions and suggestions about the rules of the roleplay and how things work

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Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:30 pm

There is a little confusion by me at the actual purpose of Slavers. Especially now that I have had the pleasure of using one to acquire a slave.

Going through In Character process only (no asking oocly if people had slaves) my character made the effort to contact a slaver for the acquiring of another slave. My character, Chymaera, made the acquaintance of two new individuals in the processes, and purchased Nowlyn.

This seemed mostly good, promoting RP and fluidity until it came time to switch her ownership from Menhir's hands, to Chymaera. That is to say, he could not transfer her to me. That requires an ISA representative, In Character, for us to make everything official.

Now, this makes very little sense to me. The Slaver went out, caught the slave and registered her/him as his trainee/merchandise with the ISA already. Why would he or myself, as his buyer, need to go to the ISA to confirm this? I also was online multiple times in the OOC Channel, during the selling of Nowlyn to Chymaera, as well as after, and have asked about getting someone to officially complete the registration for me, and gotten no responses, even when directly asking an ISA worker if I could pm them only to have them change their nicks a little bit later to another character without responding.

It made me realize that there is no benefit to the job/classification of Slaver.

#1. It is currently cheaper to find and collar your own slave as a player.
#2. No need to have a third (or would it be fourth?) party present to complete the collaring.
#3. No benefits to buying from a slaver, unless the slaver doesn't actually perform any training and just sells a slave within the first week of merchandise collaring it.

This seems to me, to be a problem and why there is so much inactivity from Slavers. They are effectively neutered and the system does not promote their activity.

My following suggestion I hope will not be viewed as an attack against those that have worked hard at the ISA. (Fully colored obnoxiously to do some separating for the eyeballs).

Revision to Imperial Slave Authority System

#1. Suggested Changes to enslaving/collaring/merchandise collars. ::EDIT:: Please Read below, this is a topic header, not a rule by itself.
If desiring an individual as a slave (with OOC permission from both parties) a Slaver must be commissioned.
EDIT: A prospective Master/Mistress may seek to 'collar' their own slave, if they pay 400 mehrials and submit the slave to a two week training course with a Slaver or ISA representative of their choice. This must contain a minimum of 4 hours of in character training, posted as a work log to the Slaver's Work Log Post.
Slaves may only be released back to Slavers, who will then verify if they need retraining before reselling, or if they should be freed due to inadequate ability to be a good slave. (No Charge)

#2. Merchandise Collar Restrictions ::EDIT:: Please Read below, this is a topic header, not a rule by itself.
Each Slaver has 2 merchandise collars, for free, up to 8 weeks.
Any slave not sold after 8 weeks will incur a 20 mhl/mo fee until sold or released.
Additional merchandise collars will cost 10 mhl/mo and may only be acquired if/when a slave is to fill it and the slaver's other merchandise collars are filled.
Any slave released by a Slaver (OOC consent required by both parties) will be 'untouchable' for 4 weeks. Meaning they cannot be merchandise collared again for 4 weeks (regardless of OOC desire)
A slaver may 'sell/trade' a merchandise slave to another slaver, but most post how many weeks the slave has been 'merchandise collared' which will detract from one of the 2 free, 8 week collars of the New Slaver (if they do not have a free collar, they will be required to pay the ISA for an additional 10 mhl slave collar).
If a Slaver is missing from the game for the duration of a new merchandise slave's collar, the slave player may request another slaver or release (Posted in the Slaver's Thread)

#3. Registering & Selling Merchandise Slaves ::EDIT:: Read below, this is a topic header, not a rule in itself.
When a Slaver takes a Merchandise Slave, they must register on the forums as per normal (OOC consent from player of slave is required) and be approved by an ISA representative.
Slavers must post 1 work log, 4 hours minimum, before selling a Merchandise Slave.
Slaves may not be sold for less than 100 mhls
Every hour of training over the required 4 hours for selling will increase a slave's value by 20mhl's (the more you train her/him the more valuable they are).
A post must be made on the forum of the intent to sell, to whom, how much is charged and with OOC consent from all 3 parties and it must be approved by the ISA on the forum.
An ISA individual is not required to 'transfer' the slave from Slaver to buyer.

#4. Continued Presence of the ISA & Slave Pens ::EDIT:: Read Below, this is only a topic header, not a rule by itself.
Merchandise slaves can be kept in the Slave Pens at the ISA where they can be viewed by other Slavers or perusing Mistress/Masters.
A list of Slaver's and their current, available merchandise slaves, value and availability should be posted at the ISA (and on the forums in an ISA Availability Thread), that should be updated regularly.
Slaves kept in the Slave Pens can be fed and bathed by the ISA workers, who may also bring in healers if necessary to treat any of the slaves.
Sales must be completed at the Imperial Slave Authority - inside (where the slaver is expected to be turning in paperwork verifying the transaction) or outside on the auction stage.
___________________________________________

So, this is my idea. It would not take the ISA out of the equation, but it would modify their involvement. It still gives the ISA employees things to do. It also promotes a facet of the game already in play, but not being utilized to the fullness of its capability. It keeps it still in house, still tied strongly to the ISA.

Thoughts?
___________________________________________
Edits added in this color to the post, to try to emphasize and redirect as I feel perhaps there was some confusion in the wording of my original post/suggestion. I hope this helps.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:17 pm

As a Slaver who's had very little interaction in the 'Slaving' field, I support the vast majority of this. It's always been a bit of contention to me OOCly that any Joe Blow off the street can snatch up someone and take them to become their 'Slave'.

However, after having talked it out a little bit, I do believe the 800mhl might be too large a sum for the majority of folks who are what we could consider 'casual' who don't post work logs every week or just don't have the time to hoard the 800mhl but still have the, considering the game environment we're in, right to own slaves for the purpose of RP. I think, 'commissioning' a Slaver to target a specific individual for capture could be brought down to 100-200 mhl and after that, the price increase or 'value' of the slave through steady training and submission of logs increasing the value of a slave from a base-line of 200 (IE, 1 hour of training makes it worth 220, 2 hours of training 240 etc etc) and if the full 8 weeks of training is performed, that's potential for a goodly sum even if it's only 5 hours per week (100 extra mhl for 5 hours).

Otherwise, as I said, the vast majority of this seems exceptional. Especially the Slave Pens, where a merch-collared slave can be active without the need of their Slaver being present and will also allow interaction between those looking to buys (as well as those OOCly looking to be bought) to interact on a level that would be safe for both buyer and slave. As well as keeping ISA employees with a purpose to actually go IC and 'tend the Slave Pens' as an IC work log rather than waiting for someone to need an ISA member for a collaring in order to get ISA work logs done, or sitting around doing 'busy work' mono-logs alone.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:27 pm

Oh, that may be poor formatting on my behalf/wording regarding the 800 Mehrial cost.

That would be specifically for those still wanting to 'bypass' the Slavers by bringing someone they want to enslave to the ISA. Hence, paying extra fees and so forth, to make it less appealing and less affordable than simply going to a Slaver and having them do the work for you.

But thank you for the input and pointing that out. Maybe that would just be something taken out all together, for more fluidity?
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Rebecca of Valaris on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:31 pm

*pokes head above the parapet*

I agree with the principle's laid out above by Joytoy. When dear Rebecca was looking for a maid I did consider going down the slaver route but after poking around at it - I couldn't see the point; especially when considering the price differential . I'm not going to pretend I know enough about the detailed mechanics once I got past the pricing but then again the fact that that was enough to put me off (and I have the odd worklog :wink: ) does seem to neuter the slaver role somewhat.

Combined, Joytoy's and Menhirs thoughts on this do seem to make rather a lot of sense from the occasional slave owner's perspective.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:31 pm

Well, if someone has the resources available to do that, it should be fine for them to just walk in and slave their own target. Maybe even have that 800mhl bypass even having to have any sort of outside training required from a Slaver as a sort of representation of how 'I can train my own slave' mentality most people who don't go through slavers seem to have at the moment.

If the person has the means and the inclination, they can drag their own meat to market (so to speak) and pay to slap their collar on it for the heavier price.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby L`aquera on Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:52 pm

I'm on the fence. On one hand, I agree with Chy on this matter, but on the other.. while we don't always like the middle man, the ISA is the official voice of the empire regarding slaves/concubines/trainers/slavers. I guess, to make it more sensible, I would say the ISA is there to make it officially your slave, even if a slaver caught the slave. They have the paper work, they file it away, the Empire receives their copy and notes its legally your slave. I also think the time frame is lessened when you get them from a slaver, fee is still the same I believe! Don't quote me, I'm not positive without looking at information.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:05 am

Time frame is actually longer, if you get them from a Slaver. Requires a minimum of 2 weeks, maximum of 6 weeks for slaver 'training' before being sold to a player. Where as, taking a 'slave' to the ISA yourself for your own collar only requires a 'cool down' period of like a week or two in case either party wants to 'change their mind' oocly about becoming a slave/master for/of players involved.

The write up mentions multiple times that the Slavers would still be submitting the 'paperwork' to the ISA for filing etc, effectively making all Slavers extensions of the ISA itself but more active in that they go out and hunt slaves / work specific targets.

And yes, collaring a slave currently for yourself by yourself is only 100mhl ... Where as any Slaver dedicating any real rp time and effort into training a slave that's been captured and involved in the story, wouldn't think of selling the slave for such a paltry amount. Which sort of is the point, because who wants to spend 500-1500 for a slave that's been 'professionally' trained when you can snatch one by the hair and drag them in and pay 100 mhl and it's yours. Not to mention the fact that Slaver's Merchant-collar tags cost 20 mhl per month, whether or not they are filled ... Over my time here I've probably paid out a few hundred for empty collars.

Again that's sort of the crux of the issue of having Slavers even being a thing. Though it's Thematic and it's excellent rp for those of us who take that route, there's a huge number of individuals who just create slaves specifically to be people's slaves through ooc communications who end up behaving perfectly yada yada without any real training, or people putting others under their slave tag as 'protection' without actually expecting them to behave in any sort of manner other than how they want to behave.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:17 am

*Nods* For sure, L`aquera, I can definitely appreciate that. The in character theme of the ISA keeping records is very integral to the system, as well as to everything functioning well. Which I definitely would not even consider suggesting be removed.

Also, just to point out - I left Concubines out of this entirely... simply because they're a different breed, as the forums would seem to support. That is where things are different, and hence slavers would really have no place in the process of acquiring, selling or dealing with concubines. It just didn't seem to quite fit.

Sorry, editing my post, as Menhir kinda said what I was going to say hehe. But I did go to the website under Slavers and grabbed this so we could see the actual rules and regs regarding benefits and so forth with Slavers.

Benefits of Becoming a Licensed Slaver

The slaver may use merchandise collars instead of standard slave collars. These take a single equipment slot and show the slave is for sale.
Slavers do not pay the 10 Mh / month ownership fee on merchandise slaves.
Slaves sold by Slavers are waived the normal waiting week.
Licensed slavers may sell slaves via the auctions at a reduced fee.
Licensed slavers may charge slave owners for enhanced training of their slaves.
Licensed slavers are likely to gain higher prices for their products as these slaves are assumed to be well trained prior to sale.
The ISA assumes a licensed slaver is experienced enough to be able to retain his property by force but may step in for serious assaults or thefts. (OOC Note: Slavers are expected to be level 5 or above and able to handle minor combat for themselves)
The ISA will assist in the recapture of slaves who escape or who are stolen.

Restrictions and Responsibilities

Slavers may never capture registered slaves or the merchandise slaves of other licensed slavers.
Personal slaves of the slaver must be registered as such and wear a full collar. Merchandise slaves that are kept for long periods with no attempt at sale will be considered personal slaves and their staus changed.
Merchandise slaves may be kept for a maximum of six weeks (real time not game time). After that they must be sold, freed, or taken as personal slave.
Merchandise slaves must be held by the Slaver for a minimum of two weeks before being sold, freed, or taken as a personal slave.
Slavers should not turn down reasonable offers to buy their merchandise (subject to OOC consent) without a good reason.
Slavers are expected to train their slaves regularly in either public or private scenes. Neglecting slaves can lead to a loss of license and the removal of merchandise slaves.
Slavers accept official scrutiny of their activities and understand their license may be revoked if they fail to behave adequately. No refunds are given.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Tawny on Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:39 am

Ok just saw this thread so guess i should add my two cents worth in here. First off I have worked with Stormbringer closely in the past to try and get slaver more involved and nothing worked. Now there are some who would like to blame the ISA for this, however the fact is Most player don't want to have to go through a slaver to get a slave. They want to either train their slave their way or are not really wanting as slave trained and are collaring for... per the games main idea... all the wrong reasons. But that is up to the player themselves.
Second.. the waiting week is waived already if a slaver sells a slave.

Third... Slaves pay for their license because they make money when they sell a slave. Also it helps the ISA to keep records on who is holding valid slavers license.

Fourth... slavers can already charge extra for extra training if the buyer wishes to pay for it.

The ISA has in the past offered 1/2 off registering fees if the slave was trained in the basics at the ISA and again this was not wanted by the players because again..they wish to train there own slaves their way. Saying a person cant not grab and train and enslave their own slave IMO would take away one of the very corner stones of this game and the ideas that went to building it.

As far as the cost to register a slave that is bought by a slaver, That is something between the new owner and the Empire and has nothing to do with the slaver. To the ISA a slave is a slave and is protected by the Empire and held to the same rules and laws and get the same benefits be they sold by a slaver or caught by the one collaring them.

I don't think free slavers license is a good idea because then everyone would suddenly become a slaver and the ISA has no way of controlling, helping, and enforcing anything when suddenly everyone is a slaver.

To tell the players they HAVE to use a slaver would just be another part of the game that gets kicked under the table. People want to do their own training.
So to answer things I guess I can do it this way

#1. It is currently cheaper to find and collar your own slave as a player.
This is not something currently, but rather something that has always been.

No need to have a third (or would it be fourth?) party present to complete the collaring.
... The need is there because that is how the empire knows who is legally owned and can enforce the rules laws and offer aid if needed.

No benefits to buying from a slaver, unless the slaver doesn't actually perform any training and just sells a slave within the first week of merchandise collaring it.
... not sure why you think there is not benefits but again Seeing how little slavers are used I would think maybe the idea of slavers would be the thing that could be done away with before doing away with the rules that allows the ISA to do its job for the collared slaves and their owners.

So there is my two cents worth in this.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby L`aquera on Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:47 am

Damn.. Tawny said what I was trying to with more flow and knowledge! DAMN YOU KIRVA! :oops: =D>

Kidding aside..

I do like Chys thoughts and I can appreciate what others have offered as advice. I'm only confused on Menhirs point. Not the time frame for the slaver, this is known well enough, but.. the point of wanting to become a slaver beyond making money, was the rp value of getting to know well.. people.. IC'ly and OOC'ly. I have to say, I've always enjoyed training my own, true enough, I've never gone through a slaver because I've never had one present me a slave in a manner that IC'ly appealed. Thats all its ever been. Not because I couldn't train them, because lets face it, you still as an owner are going to train your slave to your wants, specifications and needs and theirs mixed in. You want yourself and that slave, to ultimately, enjoy the experience just as much as you do. So.. I don't think six weeks is too long a period, but I could be convinced at 4 weeks as long as its taken as an IC value time. And not just to make money.

And a cut in price at the ISA once the slave was bought. This just makes good sense with a waiting period waved away of course since the slave was trained. I'm not sure however, as Tawny has pointed out to a sufficient degree that I can grasp easily her thoughts on it as well, attracting slavers to the trade of it, is hard now.. will this make it easier? I haven't a clue.

But after further discussion here, I'll drop the link and let HC weigh in separately and see where it might go, or, not at all.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Joytoy on Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:56 pm

I would certainly love to hear what ways you tried in the past with Stormbringer to get the slavers more involved, because that would really help me understand and even modify my original suggestions. Also, I had not hoped to make you feel as if I were blaming the ISA or anyone for the Slaver's current position. I was merely offering an idea based on what to me, looked like something that could be improved on.

I was a bit confused when you said:
Second.. the waiting week is waived already if a slaver sells a slave.

-You are correct; before you posted I went and double checked the website and posted them here so everyone else could be caught up as well in this thread.

My point regarding it was that it was not a benefit as listed, because as I said, almost no slaver is going to turn around and sell a slave within the first week they've merchandise collared them (unless, by my Original Post, they had gone out to 'catch' a particular person for a buyer). Most slavers want to train and work with the merchandise before selling, and this takes time, making the 'benefit' of the waived waiting week moot point.

Third... Slaves pay for their license because they make money when they sell a slave. Also it helps the ISA to keep records on who is holding valid slavers license.

-No other job in the empire requires you to pay your job in order to work there or have a title. Many of those jobs also have earnings above their 'hourly' for things like custom work.

Fourth... slavers can already charge extra for extra training if the buyer wishes to pay for it.

-Right there, is the crux of the problem. 90% of players are not going to go to a Slaver and pay -more- when they can do it all themselves. As I said, there is no actual benefit to buying from a slaver, which nullifies them.

Not only that, the slavers are technically penalized for not being used by the player base that wisely chooses the cheaper option, because they must pay monthly for their 'merchandise collars' whether they're being used or not.

Registration fees being cheaper sounds nice, but I fail to see how that makes things better for the Slavers. A slaver gets screwed out of their commission from training the slave if you let the buyers pay less for the slave. Unless you're saying the 100 mhl registration fee that non-slavers pay when registering a slave, which should be completely waved/included when buying from a Slaver, making this even less applicable to the situation.

if the slave was trained in the basics at the ISA and again this was not wanted by the players because again..they wish to train there own slaves their way. Saying a person cant not grab and train and enslave their own slave IMO would take away one of the very corner stones of this game and the ideas that went to building it.

-I disagree - modifying the slaver system would not prevent people from training their own slaves. As per my Original Post, I say a slaver can be commissioned to go get a slave for you. They put their 4 hours of work training in, and then they sell it to you.

I think for most players here, we can verify, four hours for one scene is not life altering for most characters and situations (there's always an exception, and the possibility must be acknowledged).

As far as the cost to register a slave that is bought by a slaver, That is something between the new owner and the Empire and has nothing to do with the slaver.

-This I am a little confused on. A person buying a slave from a slaver is paying the slaver, not the Empire or the ISA. There are no additional fees. Unless you're saying that the buyer should be paying the ISA a separate registration fee to verify the slave is now theirs - which even further undermines the role of the slaver.

I don't think free slavers license is a good idea because then everyone would suddenly become a slaver and the ISA has no way of controlling, helping, and enforcing anything when suddenly everyone is a slaver.

-Actually that is not entirely correct. Everyone can't be a slaver. As per the rules on the website, only people level 5 or higher can be slavers. Also, if my system was implemented (with changes drawn from the input and oversight of players, mods such as yourself and the Ops) then the Slavers would be actual ISA Employees. This means they can be fired for inactivity just like any other job. You can even make the rules more stringent and require that they are not allowed to miss more then one month of work log posting to maintain the privilege of being a Slaver.[/color]

.. The need is there because that is how the empire knows who is legally owned and can enforce the rules laws and offer aid if needed.
- In response to "No need to have a third (or would it be fourth?) party present to complete the collaring.

-Absolutely, the Empire needs to know who is legally owned and enforce the laws. A Slaver being able to sell a slave and put it on the forum, posted as -everyone- else posts work logs, or even yourself and Tyjir post confirmations, would not be eliminating this facet of the current system.

The change would be making Slavers capable of selling slaves and completing the registration themselves. This does not change what has to occur on the forums preceding a sale. It simply includes Slavers in the role currently held by a very small, select group of people.

I would like to also like to point out sometimes changes need to be made to a system. Especially if in a game it improves activity and/or can decrease work for OPS/Mods/Volunteers. While making the slavers a more active part of a world revolving around a setting that is far more BDSM and M/s heavy would be a big change, I would like to believe if handled well it could be an incredibly positive change.

Sure it would take getting use to.

Now, I cannot speak for Menhir, but L`aquera I completely agree with you on the fact that being a Slaver is for getting involved ICly and getting to know people. Absolutely awesome and as I said, in my experience it was great. But I'm not complaining about my experience in rping with Menhir to buy my slave. I'm merely offering a suggestion.

I have to say, I've always enjoyed training my own, true enough, I've never gone through a slaver because I've never had one present me a slave in a manner that IC'ly appealed.

-Okay, this is valid to a point. But I don't necessarily like certain Body Artist at the BA and won't let them tattoo Chymaera - that doesn't mean they aren't good and shouldn't be utilized or hired by the BA. You have to go to the BA to get quality Body Arts work done, you can just carve up your own slave and slap crude ink or dyes into their skin, but that's frowned upon to my knowledge.

Hence, not every player/character is going to like every Slaver, but there are a variety of different Slavers so there is variety in this area just as there should be everywhere.

What works for one can also work for the other.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby L`aquera on Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:06 pm

I'd sooner enjoy seeing a monthly event for slavers to sell their wares, if you'll pardon me saying a slave is a 'ware'. You could have venders out selling swords, jewelry, eats and drinks to make it more a festival feel and let people wander and get involved. Thats the way I'd appreciate waving six weeks to 4 weeks.. and I absolutely hate how I'll spell out a number and then put the number.. so dumb. Ugh. Anyway.. On the note of the price for your slave from a slaver, they are after all, paying a fee to the ISA for having and holding a licence which I think is fair, and training and feeding and housing said slave, so I don't really think the price is outrageous because of those factors.

I would sooner see price reduction and time mellowed as the point is very valid in my opinion but I wouldn't want to cut out the ISA as they are making your slave, well, legal in the eyes of the Empire.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Tawny on Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:15 am

The waiting week I speak of is for the registering the slave. Slaver have a MIN of 2 weeks and MAX of 6 weeks to train a slave. Most slavers takes about 2 to 3 weeks. They don't have to wait the full 6 weeks to sell a slave they have trained. The most they have to have a person they catch is two weeks. I don't see this as too much time. After all they are supposed to be training the person they have caught. I have on several occasions had people come to me as the Head Mistress to complain that a slaver took their char under a Merchant collar and never spends any time working with the char.
No Slavers are not and should not be employees of the ISA. They are freelance workers able to make as much as they can for a slave they sale. If they were employed by the ISA they would be making an hourly wage and nothing more. And I don't believe that everyone holding a slaver license need to have to commands that is used in Desdeamona in order to make a registering legal in the eyes of Empire. There is more involved than just saying ok they are legal. Even down to the thread that the ISA workers use to know who is within the time frame of being released from a collar. No I am sorry but I really don't see a need for that to be messed with at all.

Again on the issue of paying for the license, To say other employees don't pay is true because they are not employees. They are free lance working. But their work does not need the over seeing of an mperial office to make sure they are legal and doing things in a proper manner, and it helps keep order. Also not everyone who is over level five should become a slaver. If you think its hard to be a slaver now and not enough people willing to be trained by a slaver or buy from a slaver then letting everyone over level 5 be a slaver is only going to add to the woe not make it better.

Personally I am a bit confused on some of what your saying. Anyone right now can ask a slaver to get a slave for them, train said slave and then sell that slave to them. This has always been available. As for paying the registering fee under minding slavers. I can see lowering to half the registering fee BUT the fee has nothing to do with the slaver at all. Its the cost of insuring the help of the ISA if needed and the fee from book keeping so to speak and the taxes paid to the emperor for the right to own a slave in his land. So its between the buyer and the ISA and Empire at the point. But yes to offer a lower registering fee I can agree to that and not have any problems with it at all.
On the point of auctions for slavers. Tawny has offered this in the past and again it was never used. She as offer slavers to come to her Slave for a week auctions and sell their trained slaves as permanent slaves there as well and again no takers. I can only offer I cant make anyone accept the offer.
Lastly Again I say if you Make it so people have to pay a slaver in order to own a slave people will simply collar everyone they wish to play with as owned under the concubine registering or simply rp as they are owned and the empire will have no control at all and soon enough there will be no need for the ISA at all, and again that is going to wash away a major corner stone of this game IMO. Slavers have been and should remain an option that is available if a player wishes to use them.
So now I have made this my 4 cents worth.
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Ehlanna on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:17 am

Lot of info, late at night (early morning, rather), brain imploding ...
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Re: Middle Men and Power Vacuums

Postby Menhir on Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:41 am

Basically all I'm seeing here is 'No No No No No No No I don't want to lose my control over who gets a slave.' ...

Points that have not been even touched on:
Slaving (Being a slaver) is thematically a huge part of the environment of the game we are playing as a -Role Playing Game-, but as an effective part of the community, players basically pay 20 mhl a month to have the right to say they are a slaver. (More if they have more than one collar).

Anyone can walk a 'slave' into the ISA and say 'This is now my slave, here's my 100mhl' and be done with it after a 'one week think it over' waiting period. And whoever is running ISA at the time just hits a stamp and rp's filing it away for 'records'. That's it. Sure ... Anyone -CAN- hire a slaver to capture, train, and sell them a specific individual/slave, but who wants to when a mere 100mhl (That -any- player starts out with, so a person can create a character purely to become a slave, give their new 'master' their starting 100 mhl and that itself pays for their own collaring) gets them to the end goal faster and cheaper.

Buying from a Slaver is a niche event, and so rare that after looking through the registered slaver logs I've only seen two or three people ever sell a slave (In the current available list, no telling what was lost on prior forum updates/cleanings etc so I only have that to go on) in 2012, 2014, and 2015. There is almost no incentive to go through a slaver, even through a slaver who actively advertises that they -are- a slaver and are willing to rp out the capture, training, and sale of slaves; beyond the status of being able to say you did it that way. Because a real role-playing slaver is going to want -more- than the 100mhl that it costs to just do it yourself. Usually anywhere from 300-1500 mhl from what I've seen the player sales as. Which, by the way, are easily within the range that I've seen people pay for a -week- slave during your 'slave for a week' events.

Your 'slave for a week' events are far separate, and a slaver is never guaranteed to have a slave available for sale during one of them. So saying that you've 'pushed' this is kind of like saying 'Hey I gave a window of opportunity but nobody took me up on it, I tried.' ... Also your argument about everyone 'simply' deciding to concubine register instead of paying a slaver, sort of works itself out considering that Concubines are -not- protected by the ISA and as such it's up to the 'Owner' of the Concubine to defend them should anything happen. Where as the ISA will step in and use the IG if necessary if someone abuses a -lawfully registered slave-. And a 'false' slave tag is the same thing, and could also be turned into an rp point if the ISA finds out that someone is attempting to tag slaves without registering them; they can send the IG to capture and confiscate the slaves and punish the false Owner. If you can't imagine the possibilities of enforcing your own power, and the -Role Play- that could come from it, then maybe you need to broaden your horizons a bit.

As far as Slavers being a part of the ISA, you're again limiting your view of what could be with a single mindedness that is almost staggering. Companies hire out 'free lance' or 'independent contractor' to work under their Name but not directly -for- them all the time. Also, the fact that a Slaver -pays every month whether the merch tag is occupied or not- ensures that the 'taxes' and 'fees' are being well paid for in advance even when no work is actually even needing to be done by anyone, virtual or otherwise. As I've said before, I've paid out easily several hundred in mhl over my time for -empty collars-... Anything the -Registered Slaver- does, is already tracked and records are kept of it.

You seem to think that expanding the influence and interaction of Slavers connected to the ISA is going to wash away the 'need' of the ISA, but it's the complete opposite. Honestly at this point in time, Nobody even -thinks- of the ISA until they want to pay their 100mhl to get a tag, and as soon as that's done with they forget about the ISA. Having active slavers, people who are interested in fulfilling the role and are interested in that aspect of this game's role play can do nothing but bring the ISA more alive than it's ever been.

Anyway, this is becoming more of a rant than I'd initially intended. Take what you read with the understanding that I am very interested in fleshing out this game that we all play, and making the world we roleplay in more alive and fulfilling.
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