The OOC Room

News from the admin relating to developments in the roleplay, changes to the web site, etc

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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Vladimir on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:51 am

So essentially the official OOC is to be used as an entirely utilitarian channel, with all friendly OOC interactions among players of the game that don't directly involve it actively relegated to private chat/player run channels, where enforcement of the site-rules is near impossible and limiting access to members/potential members of the RP community is the same, and where RP alternatives can be freely advertised?
How could that go wrong? #-o :lol:

It can be something of a drag policing the ooc chatter, I'm well aware of that, and the OOC was, by some and to an extent, being misused. Still, the OOC was, and had been for many years, the center of the TLI community, more-so than the MB by leaps and bounds, as much as us MB junkies might deny it. Now that's a channel so unaffiliated with the game/site that I'm not even allowed to name it here. As good a job as folks are doing with the player-run OOC channels, forcing the community-center out of the actual community isn't likely to have a positive influence on keeping it maintained.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby iolana on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:00 am

I've stayed out of this thread for a long time, because I was trying to think of some constructive criticism I could give, instead of raving how bad an idea it was, cause honestly I couldn't care as long as I have a room to see who's all around. I barely use the OOC to chat. I will snicker, make a couple jokes every once in a while, but mostly I use it to keep track of people and stores open, so I don't have a huge freakin' list of Notifies. I have to agree with Vladimir however. I understand the OPs who're OPs now have gotten fed up with policing the OOC, that they feel that it's not their job, and I can see where they got that idea as L says it's not in the rules she wrote up. However, from what I understand, the rules that Stormbringer wrote, has a lot of rules on how to run the game. What you can and can't do, and in my mind it's up to the OPs, who run the game in his stead to enforce these rules.

With that said, it's obvious that the OPs who are in charge now, do not wish to deal with it. So, how do you fix this? Well, it's been suggested that some of them step down, or other things along the nature of making a schedule on when OPs actually police the OOC, and when they're not, take off the @ in the OOC. If someone asks a question that one OP isn't sure of, you're all sitting in the OPs channel yes? It's like the OPs OOC yes? Ask in there for clarification from another OP, and hope you get an answer.

Then I've got another idea. How about setting up a class of OP that only polices the OOC/drama? Take a few of the people who're running their own OOC chat rooms, and give them the power to help police the Belariath OOC, as they seem to want to do. They weren't forced into the position, by wanting to help the game move along, through Dev and other such things. No, they volunteered to run rooms that are essentially the OOC, but not affiliated with Belariath at all. They wanted to help the community flourish, just like a lot of the OPs wanted to help the game flourish. I see a lot of ideas from the OPs and other various people, that they're separate things. That the game could run without the community, and vise verse. Alright, so separate them. OPs for mechanical, purely game questions, and ones for community issues.

The groups have splintered, and there's a few OOCs running around. Take a couple people out of each, place them as an OP, and regardless of who comes up with an issue, you're bound to get someone you respect helping you with it. Now, am I saying they should be given all of the MB, rights, and perks of being an OP? Probably not, though maybe you could come to a consensus on this like, a couple of levels, or some mhl, just something for dedicating their time. Have a forum on the MB where only they can see, and they have to write a small description, or give a log of why they booted someone. Something the High Council and other high OPs could look at, and say "here's where I would have done this better", or "that wasn't right, don't do it again". Kind of just like how a Work Log is done for IC work, though less about how much time they put in, and more about if they were forced into action.

I don't know if any of these ideas will be taken, or if I'll just be ignored, honestly I don't really care. However, I do care that anything I said in this post does not offend anyone. That was not my intention, if you read something that does, I hope you can keep in mind that I did not mean it in whatever way you read it. So, with that said, have a good day everyone.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Infernis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:28 am

iolana wrote:I've stayed out of this thread for a long time, because I was trying to think of some constructive criticism I could give, instead of raving how bad an idea it was, cause honestly I couldn't care as long as I have a room to see who's all around. I barely use the OOC to chat. I will snicker, make a couple jokes every once in a while, but mostly I use it to keep track of people and stores open, so I don't have a huge freakin' list of Notifies. I have to agree with Vladimir however. I understand the OPs who're OPs now have gotten fed up with policing the OOC, that they feel that it's not their job, and I can see where they got that idea as L says it's not in the rules she wrote up. However, from what I understand, the rules that Stormbringer wrote, has a lot of rules on how to run the game. What you can and can't do, and in my mind it's up to the OPs, who run the game in his stead to enforce these rules.

With that said, it's obvious that the OPs who are in charge now, do not wish to deal with it. So, how do you fix this? Well, it's been suggested that some of them step down, or other things along the nature of making a schedule on when OPs actually police the OOC, and when they're not, take off the @ in the OOC. If someone asks a question that one OP isn't sure of, you're all sitting in the OPs channel yes? It's like the OPs OOC yes? Ask in there for clarification from another OP, and hope you get an answer.

Then I've got another idea. How about setting up a class of OP that only polices the OOC/drama? Take a few of the people who're running their own OOC chat rooms, and give them the power to help police the Belariath OOC, as they seem to want to do. They weren't forced into the position, by wanting to help the game move along, through Dev and other such things. No, they volunteered to run rooms that are essentially the OOC, but not affiliated with Belariath at all. They wanted to help the community flourish, just like a lot of the OPs wanted to help the game flourish. I see a lot of ideas from the OPs and other various people, that they're separate things. That the game could run without the community, and vise verse. Alright, so separate them. OPs for mechanical, purely game questions, and ones for community issues.

The groups have splintered, and there's a few OOCs running around. Take a couple people out of each, place them as an OP, and regardless of who comes up with an issue, you're bound to get someone you respect helping you with it. Now, am I saying they should be given all of the MB, rights, and perks of being an OP? Probably not, though maybe you could come to a consensus on this like, a couple of levels, or some mhl, just something for dedicating their time. Have a forum on the MB where only they can see, and they have to write a small description, or give a log of why they booted someone. Something the High Council and other high OPs could look at, and say "here's where I would have done this better", or "that wasn't right, don't do it again". Kind of just like how a Work Log is done for IC work, though less about how much time they put in, and more about if they were forced into action.

I don't know if any of these ideas will be taken, or if I'll just be ignored, honestly I don't really care. However, I do care that anything I said in this post does not offend anyone. That was not my intention, if you read something that does, I hope you can keep in mind that I did not mean it in whatever way you read it. So, with that said, have a good day everyone.



It's wonderful that you're offering up suggestions.

But, the problem's already been fixed. The day to day drama that some players drag around with them is no longer a problem for TLI as a whole. The OPs no longer have to see it or deal with it. So, your suggestions there are a moot point. Still, thanks for trying.

As it stands now, the drama that is still there(and we all know it is still there, in ridiculous amounts) is no longer in TLI itself, but relegated to the unofficial OOC channels that are naturally having a grand old time with that drama, or so I hear.

Personally, I'm thrilled with the situation as it stands, as it frees up the OPs to get back to their primary purpose of creating RP for the game, and not babysitting a bunch of gossiping old nags and snarky High Schoolers.

And if the experience of dealing with these dramatic personas in the other OOC channels is strong enough, then perhaps a few rare souls will come back into TLI with a greater appreciation for what the OPs have had to deal with for years and years.

But, I doubt it.


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Re: The OOC Room

Postby iolana on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:10 am

Infernis wrote:It's wonderful that you're offering up suggestions.

But, the problem's already been fixed. The day to day drama that some players drag around with them is no longer a problem for TLI as a whole. The OPs no longer have to see it or deal with it. So, your suggestions there are a moot point. Still, thanks for trying.

As it stands now, the drama that is still there(and we all know it is still there, in ridiculous amounts) is no longer in TLI itself, but relegated to the unofficial OOC channels that are naturally having a grand old time with that drama, or so I hear.

Personally, I'm thrilled with the situation as it stands, as it frees up the OPs to get back to their primary purpose of creating RP for the game, and not babysitting a bunch of gossiping old nags and snarky High Schoolers.

And if the experience of dealing with these dramatic personas in the other OOC channels is strong enough, then perhaps a few rare souls will come back into TLI with a greater appreciation for what the OPs have had to deal with for years and years.

But, I doubt it.

~I~


It may looked fix in your perspective of things, but the fact that L is still posting in this thread, and is still changing her mind (which can be seen by the new rules she's just posted about the OOC), it's obviously not been fixed. The OOC and it's rules are still in a state of change, and with that suggestions to bettering not just your own style of play, but bettering the community as a whole should be taken into account.

The general idea I get from you is, "it's awesome, I got my way, so everyone's happy", which by the continuing posts here is not true. So, if you could kindly stop dismissing anyone that wishes to try and help, I think that would be beneficial across the board. No suggestions? Don't post.

With that said, not to seem overly critical L. I saw your rules, and I don't think a lot of people are going to use the OOC for the way you've put forward. Just for shop tags? It's a waste to have the room up, just sitting in there, when you could just as well be in one of the unaffiliated OOC rooms and offering up your services just as easily.

Personally, I've never open a shop, just to get the hours in. Sit there monologuing, for hours just to settle some work log. I offer my services in the OOC all the time, and if people don't take me up on it, I go find actual RP with another person. Also, when people ask for specific services in the OOC, if I'm available I'll jump on it and open the store for them. I did not get an IC job, so that I could satisfy some Manager, that I barely see. I took a job, because I wanted to have other avenues to RP with people that I might not normally RP with, and to help people. Through that, I've found a few people that I've RPed with since, outside of the store. Then, when I meet people in big events, Io being rather memorable, I've got a segway into a conversation or meeting them fully.

So, I continue to think that reintegrating the community back into the OOC would be beneficial. I'd take having a place I could see the list of people on, and offer my services of a store to the whole community, rather than just one fraction of it. I'd really prefer not to have to jump into 3-5 rooms, just to offer my services.

Again, I don't mean to be rude, or upset anyone. So, please take that into account.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Gojin-Ryong on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:45 am

well after seeing the stuff that is talked about and goes on in the unaffiliated room I doubt many would want to sit in there spamming for shop stuff related to TLI then have to sift through the other stuff to see it if someone wanted a certain shop, I think the OOC room shop tag stuff is easier.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Infernis on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:27 pm

iolana wrote:
Infernis wrote:It's wonderful that you're offering up suggestions.

But, the problem's already been fixed. The day to day drama that some players drag around with them is no longer a problem for TLI as a whole. The OPs no longer have to see it or deal with it. So, your suggestions there are a moot point. Still, thanks for trying.

As it stands now, the drama that is still there(and we all know it is still there, in ridiculous amounts) is no longer in TLI itself, but relegated to the unofficial OOC channels that are naturally having a grand old time with that drama, or so I hear.

Personally, I'm thrilled with the situation as it stands, as it frees up the OPs to get back to their primary purpose of creating RP for the game, and not babysitting a bunch of gossiping old nags and snarky High Schoolers.

And if the experience of dealing with these dramatic personas in the other OOC channels is strong enough, then perhaps a few rare souls will come back into TLI with a greater appreciation for what the OPs have had to deal with for years and years.

But, I doubt it.

~I~


It may looked fix in your perspective of things, but the fact that L is still posting in this thread, and is still changing her mind (which can be seen by the new rules she's just posted about the OOC), it's obviously not been fixed. The OOC and it's rules are still in a state of change, and with that suggestions to bettering not just your own style of play, but bettering the community as a whole should be taken into account.

The general idea I get from you is, "it's awesome, I got my way, so everyone's happy", which by the continuing posts here is not true. So, if you could kindly stop dismissing anyone that wishes to try and help, I think that would be beneficial across the board. No suggestions? Don't post.

With that said, not to seem overly critical L. I saw your rules, and I don't think a lot of people are going to use the OOC for the way you've put forward. Just for shop tags? It's a waste to have the room up, just sitting in there, when you could just as well be in one of the unaffiliated OOC rooms and offering up your services just as easily.

Personally, I've never open a shop, just to get the hours in. Sit there monologuing, for hours just to settle some work log. I offer my services in the OOC all the time, and if people don't take me up on it, I go find actual RP with another person. Also, when people ask for specific services in the OOC, if I'm available I'll jump on it and open the store for them. I did not get an IC job, so that I could satisfy some Manager, that I barely see. I took a job, because I wanted to have other avenues to RP with people that I might not normally RP with, and to help people. Through that, I've found a few people that I've RPed with since, outside of the store. Then, when I meet people in big events, Io being rather memorable, I've got a segway into a conversation or meeting them fully.

So, I continue to think that reintegrating the community back into the OOC would be beneficial. I'd take having a place I could see the list of people on, and offer my services of a store to the whole community, rather than just one fraction of it. I'd really prefer not to have to jump into 3-5 rooms, just to offer my services.

Again, I don't mean to be rude, or upset anyone. So, please take that into account.



Well, see, here's your problem. You're making a number of assumptions.

You're assuming that the rules regarding the 'new OOC' weren't already figured out several weeks ago, while most of the people in this thread were squealing and wailing about how this would be the end of TLI forever and ever.

You're assuming the situation requires any help whatsoever. As it stands, the amount of RP has risen significantly and the amount of drama, within TLI, has fallen dramatically. Irony, no?

And your suggestion that I either post suggestions or not post is not just silly, but actually pretty goddamned funny when you stop to think about it.

But, hey, here's my suggestion: Close the OOC entirely and completely, forever and for good. Remove the 'idle timer' for the Inn channel itself so people can sit and wait and not feel like they have to leave if no one is in there at the moment.

The plethora of available unofficial OOC rooms has proven that the OPs and the game itself doesn't need to provide one in order for the players to have their fun.

But, hey, who knows? Maybe the whole game will disintegrate here any second and everything fall apart and blow away like chafe in the wind, because we don't have an official channel for you all to post links and poke fights with each other over who's digitally fucking who's digital girlfriend/boyfriend.

I'm just chock full of good suggestions, eh?

~I~
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby crow on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Infernis wrote:
iolana wrote:
Infernis wrote: Remove the 'idle timer' for the Inn channel itself so people can sit and wait and not feel like they have to leave if no one is in there at the moment.


Hm I think that's a pretty good idea, I know I had a lot more random rp when I was able to idle till someone shows.
There's a difference between being afk and being idle though, we'd have to trust people not to abuse the privilege?
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Adonai on Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:24 am

Even if they do abuse it, the worst that will happen is people think we are more active, that is why i have always have been and ALWAYS will be pro-ooc channel, every ooc iahve been in was to shoot the breeze and answer questions, and heck while i was around i always tried or saw the questions answered.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Kaleb on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:36 am

First off, though I havent been around to see it firsthand, I think its great to hear those players who double as Ops have had far more opportunities to be creative since the OOC closing. Its not kissing ass to say many of them are among the best players in the game. Its also good to hear that rp in general has greatly increased since this decision. Both are fine consequences yet I'm still going to request the return of an officially sanctioned OOC room for TLI, likely the same thought Ehlanna once posted with one room for help and a second for more social interaction corralled into one place that can be policed by Des if nothing else. I whole heartedly agree with L`s Zero Tolerance policy for it, but the game needs a single meeting point even if not all the Ops wish to associate with it. This in no way is meant to criticize those generous enough to have set up the varied unofficial channels as I am sure each one had the best intentions for our game just as the overwhelming majority of players do. However pushing off all ooc issues to non official channels does not make TLI any less responsible in the end, at least in the minds of the community and newer players. I personally believe it would be far better for the game itself to have everything under Des's watchful eye where the hammer could be swiftly dropped on any unacceptable activity than to have several unofficial places still associated by all who know but having no actual game control.
I would agree that to save more long term Ops from such ooc distractions, it would make sense to create a sort of Junior op status to patrol this one single room likely offered to those who were thoughtful enough to create or police these now existing rooms. I'm sure many of the same who are doing this now would be willing to do the same for TLI plus they would have the backing of Des to keep only those logged in voiced and avoid all the trolls and true troublemakers who would still attack TLI by extension through these unofficial rooms.
I could be completely off base, but I think there must be a sensible compromise to keep troubles in unofficial rooms from reflecting poorly on the official game while still lightening the burden on the Senior Ops to be more creative and enhance the game experience. This would also be a good way to reward those deserving for stepping in and helping to hold the community together with their own rooms while at the same time offering them a bit of protection from outsiders who have always looked for ways to hurt our game.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Tehya on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:36 pm

I wasn't going to post again, but felt one point should be taken in consideration, since I agree with Infernis's idea of lifting the loitering time in channels. That is I was playing an explicit sexual scene in a Tli-room and a non-registered character sat for 1 hour and 27 min watching. When I did a whois on them their name was also in nintendo-rpg which made me extremely uncomfortable since I assumed them to be a minor. I spoke to one of the ops who removed them...thank you, for I didn't even want to post anymore with that thought in mind. So if there is a rule on no loitering at least make it for registered characters only. We don't need crayon users sitting watching X rated rpg.

TLI has proven to stand well with what's in hand now. Why not utilize the rooms that are running now, and make a room TLI-Questions or whatever you want to name it for new players. It seems from my rose colored glasses the rooms running now are brightly lit, friendly with no drama which should relieve our ops that have dealt with so much nagging and complaining. Then they can center themselves on what they are really there for dealing with game issues.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:43 pm

I will make this clear. If TLI Ops are oping in other non-related TLI ooc/otherwise channels. They have nothing to do with TLI. Its called separation of mind set. It means, if they Op in one of the other ooc channels and someone gets into trouble, that trouble won't be allowed to spill over to any TLI channel. We won't recognize the ruling thoughts or even listen to, any drama issues or otherwise from another channel. And, if we find out any op does so, they will be fired immediately. This was arranged not to long ago and every Op knows this. If they take their own time to go over there and Op for another place, then its on their own time, their own want and your own recommendations. Has nothing to do with TLI. You won't get special favors, xp, banned, kicked, xp taken away or ill used from one spot to the other.

Just as TLI would fully expect if they banned someone from their rooms, you would not automatically ban from another room not even associated. This is fair all the way around.

Secondly, these rules for the ooc are not changing. Not now. When it opens on the 28th, The Zero Tolerance and, the only questions game related/talk game related, will be allowed in our OOC room.

I was asked last evening by Scourge why again the OOC room was closed. I said the same thing in his pm as I did in this thread. Abuse will no longer be tolerated.

I wish you all well and I hope you have a lot of success in your leisure room. In fact, I feel and mostly all the ops feel, this seems to be working out for the best. You police yourselves, we get to have the fun part. There is no clashing of wills and bickering and arguing, just good old fashioned, role play. s'what I like to see.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Tehya on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:48 pm

Just to clarify I asked an on duty TLI-op that wasn't in the new room to help me. I should of stated that, and thanks for the help.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Sakkara on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:54 pm

How about we have a dice channel, and an ops channel, that way diceing can be done, and ops can answer questions in thier channel.

Seems to be the Ops dont want an ooc channel as it was, and the player base does, so lets all meet half way, have the unoffical player policed ooc rooms we got now, and lets have the Ops channel and dice channel. The dice channel could then be used for spamming of sale items.

Also, lets get rid of the loitering rule, Ive been agaisnt it since it was implemented and have always felt it did nothing but damage TLI, one day you had people posting willynilly creating rp anyone could jump in and join, the next day you had empty channels save for the OOC and constant "anyone want to play with my <insert race here>?"
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Wadeywade on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:02 pm

my opinion (and thats all this is) is this: it is a terrible inconvienence. I know I am not the one who caused the OOC room to be shut down but it has affected what I am doing. that being said I am just hopeful you will be nice enough to reopen OOC. the current arrangement put a strain on the old computer; having to have so many windows open.

However I also see this was needed, the drama got to be too much and something had to be done as that hampered roleplay as well. If you reopen I look forward to the opportunity to rewind the clock a little and RP in the more stress-free enviorment, that small pod of escapism needed to sustain sanity.

I don't judge what has happened, but I simply register an opinion that OOC was a vital and intergral part of the game and hope you are kind enogh to reopen it, and if not, I understand why.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Stormbringer on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:49 pm

My, but you people do witter on, don't you. All those words and stuff! It certainly disproves my theory that there was so little roleplay because the new generation was illiterate in anything more demanding than text messaging :)

There seems to be some sense that closing the OOC will somehow stop the snideness, the emo-centric 'look at meeeeeeeee, I'm so suffering from an alphabet soup of personality disorders', the cliques, the jealousies.... It won't. It was never expected to, by me at least. What it was supposed to achieve was to stop giving them a soapbox that was officially sanctioned and so encourage their propagation.

Obviously it won't stop them. How could it? People don't change their nature just because they no longer have access to a specific outlet for it. No, the intention was, and remains, to boot it firmly out of any channel recognised by TLI. Sweep it under the carpet, kick it out the door, throw it out with the bathwater, whatever cliche you prefer. That was the intention I had, that was what it achieved.

TLI exists as a roleplaying environment. Nothing more, nothing less. The Ops are appointed to oversee a roleplaying environment and handle problems within it. Nothing more, nothing less. There are valid reasons to have an OOC room but they do not include most of what happened there. They are simple things like rolling dice, changing character without logging out, and asking questions about the ROLEPLAY.

Now if you all need a virtual hot tub to sit around in and work up the energy to do some creative play, keep up your own chat rooms. If you want to huddle together and discuss whether the geeky girl will get a date for the prom, do it somewhere else. If you want to call each other names, commit suicide live and in technicolor, bitch about how many rules there are in TLI, plan (seamus H christicles.... plan???) you roleplay by pre-scripting it, make your space and enjoy yourselves.

But you won't do it in TLI. And the TLI Ops will not listen to any problems in any of those rooms, and none of it will come back into TLI and have any effect on the roleplay. Oh and no, to answer another aspect, you do not need to be in OOC to advertise 50 different characters available for roleplay. And neither do you need to be in there to advertise your ability to open any one of a dozen different shops. Do it somewhere else. Or better yet, just pick one and go into the channel with the suffix on your nick. Let people look for you in there and in character.

Thank you for having nothing better to do with your life than read this. Now go and PLAY!
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