The OOC Room

[Corbin Adal]

Lets begin.

First. I'd like to know how you 'think' the Ops are having all this drama that has anything to do with you? I'd be VERY curious to know that. Off topic. Subject.

Second. Its our job. There are rules in the OOC. I'm sure you must know this. So telling us not to notice it when its 'brought' to us. All the time. Is silly in the extreme.

If new players show up you'll just tell them to join the ops channel.. Right.. So you'll be staying in channel 24/7 will you? Forgive me if this sounds rather sarcastic, it is meant to be. You haven't said any real reason or valid reason to the OOC staying open and frankly, the Drama that was caused around you while this was going on, simply seems to show our point about the drama in the OOC.. and what happens because of it. Not to mention Fariday, having an Op on ignore and stating so, insulting the Ops that weren't even speaking to him until he started insulting them. But somehow, there is no drama going on and everything is cheerful, right?

I'm not sure in all truth, I'm following your thought system here Corbin. At all. Regardless, thank you for your thoughts. Who knows what might stick in the mind.

So, I'll go ahead and address this piece by piece. But I'll be upfront and state that you obviously didn't understand what I was saying and that I don't want to take the time to rehash it. If you go back and read what I wrote without wanting to be confrontational, you'll probably get more out of it.

That said, we'll go one at a time.

1) Who said that it had anything to do with me? But don't pretend that there's no drama. There clearly is, or you wouldn't be in this pickle, would you?

2) If you'd like to remove policing the OOC room from your "job", you can do that by leaving the OOC room just as easily as closing it to all comers. Let's not pretend that those two things aren't identical, except you'll be saving players the hassle of registering their own OOC room.

3) The idea that I alone would police the room 24/7 for new players is a logical deflection from my suggestion, and a foolish one at that. You're smarter than that kind of argument, I'm sure. If you believe that no one at all would direct a new player where they're meant to go, that's something to be remedied.

You seem to only want to argue, and I'm game for that. But don't be obtuse just to sound insulting. It's unprofessional and childish. As for Fariday having ops on ignore? I don't think that you, or anyone, have the right to advise a player how they set up their IRC client. If someone has a standing order to ignore everything you say? You might look to that as a sign of something other than OOC being too big for your plate.

PM is always open to further this talk. My suggestions, which a fair number of people seemed to understand, remain.

[Thria]

For clarification:

The drama isnt lost. That -is- a pipedream, and we both recognize that. What closing the OOC room does to the drama is it takes a tenth of it off of the ops, because most of it will then transfer to these forums, to PM's to the ops, to emails to the admins...we all need to vent. And as you pointed out yourself, the ops wouldnt be hiding, so their PM boxes suddenly start opening up. [By the way, where are we supposed to ask if it's alright to PM if OOC is closed?] The 10% that came off of the ops? Goes into those little 'clique' channels, to fester there and grow into more drama. And so the cycle continues.

Drama happens. It's going to happen, it will always happen as long as you have more than one person. Any system is perfect until you introduce the most imperfect element in the galaxy: humans.

[Axios]

I've not read everyone's replies so this is just my opinion. If I touch on someone else's thoughts - apologies. Also the use of "You" and "Your" in this is general you, not anyone in specific. . .

I wouldn't say that 95% of the problems in TLI are OOC-room related.

I'd say that 95% of the problems in TLI are IC/OOC crossovers.

"I don't like you OOC so I'll talk smack about your char IC."
"I don't like your char so I'll talk smack about you OOC. "

This is bad form.

I don't think that the ops should have to be the arbiters of OOC room, or PMs.
They shouldn't be PM police.
The Ops should be there to help the new players.
People are adults. If they can't handle their own problems OOC - then you probably shouldn't be here.
If you're that thin-skinned that someone on the internet gets your goat, riles you up, or makes you angry?

You shouldn't be here as a player. It's not healthy for you.

If you can't handle mature situations, (i.e. sex, d/s, m/s) without some maturity - you shouldn't be here.

I think normal social rules should be pretty self-evident to most - but they're not.

I think you should be social, act like an adult, and be civil. It costs nothing to be civil. If you act like a douche? I think you should be shown the door. Promptly, without argument. It'd cut down on a lot of the bullshit ooc.

I think there should just be a list of numbered clear rules set up for the OOC room.
And by clear, I mean it's pretty evident what they mean. (You will always have 'lawyer' folk argue them.)

If you break one - an OP should kick you, send you a tell with the rule you broke - and the # with a link so you know what's going on. They don't have to discuss it with you. And frankly? They prolly shouldn't. Cause that usually ends with an argument.

There really shouldn't be a need for a debate of dropping the OOC room. RP is a social game.

Which means you should be 'social' and 'civil' and not a jackass. Sure, your char might be one IC.

But you shouldn't be one OOC to act 'cool'. Cause really? You just look like an anti-social twit.

[L`aquera]

The OOC Room

The OOC room exists so that players and Ops alike can discuss plans of role-playing characters, and new players to the game can discuss and get what help is needed to start themselves out. To a lesser degree, it exists so players can chat with each other and relax. Everyone here is over an 18 age margin and as such, is expected to act in a mature fashion. We of course, discourage such things as, Religion. Race. Politics. These reasons become clear as you may step into a discussion that suddenly becomes most heated and certainly unneeded.

The Ops will ONLY moderate the channel for objectionable behavior such as insulting comments, racism, trolling, emo-centric whines, arguments and harassment. Objectionable behavior will be defined at the sole discretion of any Ops present in the OOC channel. If they tell you to stop you will have five minutes to comply, to allow for post lag. After that, if you continue you will be banned from OOC for a minimum of 48 hours. No arguments, no discussions, no appeal.

The channel is for registered TLI players, not for trolls. Fail to log in with Des for 20 minutes and you will be kicked. Rejoin and fail to log in after a further 20 minutes and you will be banned from OOC for 24 hours.
Topic Changes: There seems to be some confusion on this. A topic change cannot be enforced by a single player, or even a group of players, demanding one. There is a general rule that certain subjects are discouraged in OOC. But in all cases, players can request an Op to call for a topic change. Only an Op can demand a topic change however.

The TLI Help Channel

#TLI-Ops
This channel is not somewhere you can hang about aimlessly. It is purely a place to visit when you have a question or need help from the Ops. As such you will not gain an automatic voice whether you are logged in to Des or not. An Op will voice you when they are ready to help. After that you can discuss your problem and once finished, will be expected to leave the channel again.


Please read here since I believe, some of you haven't read the rules page and obviously should and need to.

[Adonai]

I've not read everyone's replies so this is just my opinion. If I touch on someone else's thoughts - apologies. Also the use of "You" and "Your" in this is general you, not anyone in specific. . .

I wouldn't say that 95% of the problems in TLI are OOC-room related.

I'd say that 95% of the problems in TLI are IC/OOC crossovers.

"I don't like you OOC so I'll talk smack about your char IC."
"I don't like your char so I'll talk smack about you OOC. "

This is bad form.

I don't think that the ops should have to be the arbiters of OOC room, or PMs.
They shouldn't be PM police.
The Ops should be there to help the new players.
People are adults. If they can't handle their own problems OOC - then you probably shouldn't be here.
If you're that thin-skinned that someone on the internet gets your goat, riles you up, or makes you angry?

You shouldn't be here as a player. It's not healthy for you.

If you can't handle mature situations, (i.e. sex, d/s, m/s) without some maturity - you shouldn't be here.

I think normal social rules should be pretty self-evident to most - but they're not.

I think you should be social, act like an adult, and be civil. It costs nothing to be civil. If you act like a douche? I think you should be shown the door. Promptly, without argument. It'd cut down on a lot of the bullshit ooc.

I think there should just be a list of numbered clear rules set up for the OOC room.
And by clear, I mean it's pretty evident what they mean. (You will always have 'lawyer' folk argue them.)

If you break one - an OP should kick you, send you a tell with the rule you broke - and the # with a link so you know what's going on. They don't have to discuss it with you. And frankly? They prolly shouldn't. Cause that usually ends with an argument.

There really shouldn't be a need for a debate of dropping the OOC room. RP is a social game.

Which means you should be 'social' and 'civil' and not a jackass. Sure, your char might be one IC.

But you shouldn't be one OOC to act 'cool'. Cause really? You just look like an anti-social twit.

And to L, <3 ^.^' always keep me on my toes and help me, but last time OOC was closed was a bit before the time of the temp forgiveness ban for 1 year, you had to be there different subject topic for those who do not understand it. I remember like 4 OOC rooms being opened by ops, and the higher level players to hang out in. And they lasted well into another half year of the rules of OOC relaxing again, in truth we all just need a major boot in the crotch and for people to man the hell up, drama is stupid, unless it is IC, i mean Gunthar raping peoples slaves and makin them mad is the good type of drama! The bad type is hanging in cliques, not groups, they are VERY different. Either way, the OPS take their time to help, to try to make the channel better, some rules we agree with some we don't.

To the point of arguing with OPS and being unappreciative: When you go to a restaurant or a friends house and they serve or say something you don't like, do you throw a little shit fit? Cry and whine about it? No, you man the hell up, eat it or learn not to order it again.

My point is we are adults. Because if not we need to get the hell out of this channel, you respect those near you or you fail at everything. And the same is here eventually you will fail, harshly.

And to a post up above, I am sorry but I completely disagree about Non-OPs giving suggestions as long as they are not sarcastic, heck I made a large guide to help people, luckily a few kind people pimp it out to all the newbies to help them.

We do play here, but it is also OUR responsibility to keep it a safe Environment for each other. Most suggestions I see here are disappointing in one way or another for one fact, 'Oh the OOC is the cause of this, or that.' No, we are, (within reason!) Am I saying you bully the hell out of some one for being a jackass? No. I am saying just say politely, please, they asked you to stop multiple times. If it doesn't work, ask an OP. What happened here? It is simple you potentially just helped the OPS, if the person retaliates and is rude, just ignore them, (NOT /Ignore against the rules without permission) They are gamers, role-players. They sacrifice their time to help us out every step to the point a lot of them grew to HATE this place. Yes, I know OPS that quit or would rather stab themselves then put the @ again, isn't that sad? We are ADULTS I know I have said this many times but it is repetition for a reason, we all need to man the hell up, stop being children and do our best to act like adults. If you wish to act like a kid go play Call of Duty and scream obscenities at random people like other annoying kids do.



P.S. These convos would have more power if people actually visited the forums more often lol.

[Tehya]

I have been out sick, and probably missed what happened, but I do think OOC should remain open or some brave person open an OOC game room for the game (one room)

Its nice to have the comradely of a place players can gather with others that all enjoy the game for these reasons:

1. Laugh or reminisce about past rp
2. Advertise an event
3. Advertise what is going on in a world story-line
4. Hope to hook up with someone you're IN a story-line with
5. Meet new people that might be prospective players for your character
6. Advertise your quest and explain it if anyone is questioning it.
7. GET a shop open and yes sometimes you have to do some pretty pleases for that to happen, but if we aren't gathered in one place how will that happen? Not everyone will be in #Tli-town for the shops but might be rplaying and if we can't ask hey after your done can you open NB its going to be hard.
8. Stir up some story-lines to entice rp (found this very helpful with Unigo rp)

If someone is disobeying rules give them 1 warning then no OOC room for them. Kind of like the soup Nazi and if an op is overloaded from the stress hand it to another op and enjoy some rp for yourself. Rotating shifts might work.

What never made sense to me with being online is, its so easy to click sign off... either on your pc or from IRC... why not ignore, or just disappear if things are aggravating you. A long time ago I remember someone saying they were literally raped online.

Sorry I still find it amusing, if you don't like something done or seen, sign off. No one ties us to the pc, shreds our clothes, and rapes us, or disables our sign off button.

Not interacting with someone who can't establish OOC & IC helps too.
Every Artistic Venue has a lobby, OOC seems to be ours!

[L`aquera]

I asked. I actually begged. I had a few conversations in the OOC and in PM and you know what that did? Squat. Drama and insults same shit, different day.

The OOC is closed for One month. I have Spoke to Stormbringer. We don't care what you do for an OOC room at this time. Go make your own. Do not use any TLI related names to it. The Ops room is open to help you, not for a hang out joint.

The Ops will be patrolling all rooms so you'll know if we are there. If you really need help, its #TLI-Ops

This is non-negociable. I'm tired of arguing and stressing and watching my ops argue and stress. If this doesn't cure it in one month, it will close permanently.


The Loitering in IC channels will be relaxed to half an hour. If you haven't gone IC in half an hour, you'll be nudged and asked to leave. If you don't leave, you will be kicked, if you come back and do not automatically go into IC mood, we will ban you for one day. IF you all can handle this and no incidents occure, we may review in a week or so, the loitering to an hour. Who knows.

Thank you

[Adonai]

Welp that is a shame that people can't grow up, my channel is open, feel free to pm me online ill have it in my away and the like.

[MidniteFym]

I have been out sick, and probably missed what happened, but I do think OOC should remain open or some brave person open an OOC game room for the game (one room)

Its nice to have the comradely of a place players can gather with others that all enjoy the game for these reasons:

1. Laugh or reminisce about past rp
2. Advertise an event
3. Advertise what is going on in a world story-line
4. Hope to hook up with someone you're IN a story-line with
5. Meet new people that might be prospective players for your character
6. Advertise your quest and explain it if anyone is questioning it.
7. GET a shop open and yes sometimes you have to do some pretty pleases for that to happen, but if we aren't gathered in one place how will that happen? Not everyone will be in #Tli-town for the shops but might be rplaying and if we can't ask hey after your done can you open NB its going to be hard.
8. Stir up some story-lines to entice rp (found this very helpful with Unigo rp)

If someone is disobeying rules give them 1 warning then no OOC room for them. Kind of like the soup Nazi and if an op is overloaded from the stress hand it to another op and enjoy some rp for yourself. Rotating shifts might work.

What never made sense to me with being online is, its so easy to click sign off... either on your pc or from IRC... why not ignore, or just disappear if things are aggravating you. A long time ago I remember someone saying they were literally raped online.

Sorry I still find it amusing, if you don't like something done or seen, sign off. No one ties us to the pc, shreds our clothes, and rapes us, or disables our sign off button.

Not interacting with someone who can't establish OOC & IC helps too.
Every Artistic Venue has a lobby, OOC seems to be ours!

I agree with This post 100% I find it very helpful to have an ooc room and not have to jump in and out of channels to see what is going on or if someone is on that you want to roleplay with. I also like to check out ooc for events I might have missed or just to say hi of I am not going to be able to be on long.

[Lucien Valdres]

Cannot agree with not having an OOC room, but refuse to be drawn into a while debate on my reasons since some of this..irritates me. Am a responsible adult and since I do not know how else I can offer such information now. I am on Krylok`Dreadpaw on MIRC, anyone is free to message me, have made my own room, look to FB TLI group if you are on there. Suffice to say I feel the actions of a few are having a detrimental effect on the many, TLI is not nor ever has been just a place to RP and reducing it to just that...as things currently stand is taking away from the fact that I enjoy spending time with 'people' not just the characters of said...am quite sure am not alone in this. Simple fact being, though surely not wholly the case but for some of us we do not have the luxury of social interaction in a more real life sense, so having a place where you can be around people that appreciate you, be company, friends, entertainment without having to -be- your character is a healthy thing, hell Ive always done my part in helping OOC be a more lighthearted place. it saddens me since I see the clique'ish types withdrawing into their groups even more so then before, it is likely to dampen then invigorate RP.

[Adonai]

Not to be rude but what happens when new players come to the inn and see no one in there? Every ooc i've ever been in is filled to the brim, will people leave or stay?

[Chrystine Moonspell]

I whole heartedly agree with Tehya.

Drama is drama, as always been drama... and what this caused? More drama. Fighting fire with fire? Not wise.

Yes drama sucks. Yes even i more then once asked ppl to settle down. And even i more then once lost my temper. We are human.

The ooc room provides escape and interaction. We can wait for our rp partner, we can see if any events are going on, we can ask for suggestions on improving our rp.

You cite drama and that the ops are tired of it.

Then quit. I am sorry to be blunt, but its pretty much like that. You are not getting payed. We are not forcing any of you to be there. You do a wonderful work and most of respect (well in the light of this, perhaps used to respect) you guys. But this locking down of the ooc because of drama? We dont force you to take it. Sure its not fair for you. Its not fair for us either but it happens. And if we dont like it we leave and return later. Do the same. Or quit. But do not impose you being burnt out on teh rest of us.

And i am saying this as respectfully as i can.

[Adonai]

I can see a point about the events because half the people i know in tli, only visit the forums for logs and nothing else, almost no events would be known.

[Axios]

And to a post up above, I am sorry but I completely disagree about Non-OPs giving suggestions as long as they are not sarcastic, heck I made a large guide to help people, luckily a few kind people pimp it out to all the newbies to help them.

I don't think I mentioned anything about non-ops giving suggestions.

Most of my comments were broad-stroke comments. Meaning they're not aimed at any subset of folks in TLI. It's more of a 'everyone' statement.

And what you said is pretty much what I said.

I was once in a realm in a different site - our main rule was this.

"Be civil or begone."

I think that's a pretty self-evident rule. And people who push the envelope got punted. It was a pretty nice place.

If you started an argument and someone rose to the bait? They got punted too. Pretty fair in my eyes. You learned to just ignore idiots.

It's the best thing.

That's what people should do here but don't.

[Cirri]

You know, I just read all this, thinking about some things. And yes, I will admit I rarely RP. Yeah I am guilty of the job complaining etc portion of my life...but then the only outlet I have for decent conversation is my friends and the community here. I can understand a "time out" for heads to cool, give the OPs a break (as I have seen how hard they work and how little appreciation that they get).

There has always been drama, etc because we are human. We get jealous. We get hurt. We have off days. HOpefully we will also forgive others. Demonstrate patience and understanding. Take a self time out if needed (Heck I took a 5 year time out when I needed it!)

I will do better with some of those areas where I am lacking and be a better community member.