The OOC Room

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The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:38 pm

I wish I could scream. Rant. Rave. Bitch. Moan. Whine. I can, but I doubt that would get me further then more posts in the same vein.

The OOC ROOM has turned into Romper Holiday. The only good thing that comes out of it anymore is when you leave.

We have four sets of individuals that visit the OOC room. Ready?

1: Those that are working nearly non-stop and need an avenue to advertise this fact.

2: Those that enjoy passing along links of pictures, games, funnies, news, politics, big-foot sightings and music.

3: Those that need to spend their time while at work, knowing whats going on and pointing out how bored they are and can't do anything, because they are at work!

4: Pseudo rp.

I spend 90% of my day when I come in, fielding drama. This is not a made up number. This is a problem. I get to spend 10% actually helping. I spend my day, stressed to high hells. Waiting, waiting for Jaws to circle back around. And suddenly the music gets louder and I feel his teeth on my body! OH MY GOD ITS HIM AGAIN!

I have never been this stressed in an environment that was meant to ask questions of and get help of, an Op.

And if its not enough to have the drama and chaos and back biting and echoing of highschool days there, it gets brought to the Board from there. Drama to renounce drama is still drama.

So. I'm done. My rope is reached. This is not a drill. The sirens are only a text echo of the past.

If it cannot be utilized in an adult fashion, if the bitching, whining, moaning, groaning, dripping of sarcasm at Ops when your told to take it elsewhere or it isn't needed there, doesn't stop, and you don't have much time to stop it, I'm going to have it removed from pubic loitering and all you'll be able to do is pop in, ask your question and get out.

I used to support the use of the room as a venting avenue. Now I think its just a loitering tool to be anything but, adults. I like to share links to, have a thoughtful conversation, speak of the game, laugh, tell jokes.. I don't actually go in there to get rude with anyone and yet, inevitably, I have to do a babysitters job and tell folks to shut up and sit down and then all I ever hear after they are told to do so, is further whining.

Clean it up. That place has three strikes and its out. This means, any further drama perpetuated by that room, is a strike. Until you are out of strikes.

One Op stated 95% of our problems would be over if we dumped the channel. I am going to agree with that assessment here and now.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Archaon on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:16 pm

<@Archaon> I'd wager 95% of all issues have originated from this room.


In truth, I'm actually being rather modest about that quote. The OOC is a spawning pool of drama. While it is nice to sit there, chat it up once in a while while waiting for a post or someone to come on and rp with, that is not the sole purpose of what the room is supposed to be. I'll drop in and monitor rooms every now and again, usually the most played rooms that I know of and see, at best, 5-6 people rping at any one time.

It is nearly 2:45pm EST as I post this, and there's 36 people in OOC. 11 are RPing. A little less than 1/3, probably is 1/3 if you don't count myself, Des, and L who have the @ on. Sorry, but I'm on this boat. We've tried every avenue possible to bring this Drama disease to light, but it continuously crops up. It gets ugly, it gets annoying.. and truth be told, I've been dangerously close to exploding on people over minute issues that are not supposed to be an Op's problem.

We've said it many times. We are not psychiatrists. Not Psychologists. Not marriage counselors, or babysitters. Not teachers, nor are we your parents. We are Ops. We moderate the channels. We kick whoever needs to be kicked. Ban whoever needs to be banned. We enforce the rules of this world as we've been trained to do by our predecessors. I've been an Op for about 7-8 of my 10 years here, and I've come dangerously close to giving it up because I'm tired of the drama. Things need to change. Better, or worse.. they really need to change at some sort of cost.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Corbin Adal on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:37 pm

Let me preface with this: I respect that the Ops have a tough job adminning such a large game. I know that it's rough and that while you might have started as a player, most of your playtime is now taken up with doing Op things which includes monitoring the OOC channel. I deeply respect that, and I appreciate it. It's not for everyone.

That said? Removing the OOC room would be a damage to the game. Flat out. Social community and the like are very important in gaming and asserting that the game should have no "landing point" for new players is a disservice to the game. OOC is where questions get asked and where players mingle and interact. And sometimes, that's in very awkward and heated ways. Gamers. What are you gonna do?

You say that the drama is in the way? Stop paying attention. Stop getting involved. There is a TON of drama revolving around the Ops and none of it has to do with the gameplay. It's all a ridiculous blur of OOC and IC, which I personally can't stand. My character is not me and I am not my character. But it seems that a lot of people have issues with that idea, and it burns into drama in the OOC.

Long story short: Don't close OOC. Leave OOC instead. It was asserted in the channel recently by Infernis that if we got rid of OOC, people would adjust. I assert that the sentiment is true, but that the Ops who don't like the OOC channel should "adjust" by staying away from it and from the drama within.

If new players show up, they won't get raped. They'll get directed to #tli-ops and it'll be done. Simple.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Adonai on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:40 pm

First thing I saw when i returned to OOC after reading this was some one asking why the hell an op took the position, in truth it aint really hard to figure out why, they wanted multiple things. To, Help. To guide and answer questions, to bring more to the community they love or once loved. Drama kills everything, and the worse thing is, drama with adults seems to grow worse than that with kids, so i can understand their stress from past experiences. All i have to say you all seem to do a great job, and to those who whine, I heard L makes field goals often.

And Corbin, if they erase the ooc room, the same thing will happen that it did last time, 5 of the older players will open 2-3 channels for ooc, people will get to heavy in cliques then when the OOC reopens after things calm down people will be far more secluded.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby CallieO on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:44 pm

I think the biggest problem with closing the OOC room is that people won't be able to advertise or ask for shop services. And the only answer I've gotten is, "More or less, you'd just have to hope and pray that they're on." I'm sorry, but that's no kinda answer. It would be an incredible inconvenience!

If people can't behave themselves in OOC, then kick or ban them. From what I can tell, this whole mess started because one person said, "When I enter the OOC room, I don't like people greeting me by molesting me or raping me." Well, heck, that's been part of the game for a long time now. Why not set a series of rules for the OOC room?
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Twerlinger on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:54 pm

Yes the shop services might get a bit more iffy, but in reality, its not going to make an awful lot of difference in that respect, I know people who work shops that don't enter the OOC channel.. they *gasp* go IC and work, and see if someone comes along, as opposed to advertising their services and if no-one wants it, then they don't bother.

It'll make people do something.. useful for a change and actually have the places open like real shops are, as opposed to on the whim of someone or other.

And yes, the whole snugglecuddlehumprape has been part of the OOC for a while, but so has people respecting the simple premise, that if someone doesn't feel safe/happy/comfortable with it, and ask for it to stop.. us adults should respect their wishes, without having to try and drag the OPS into something that we should be able to police ourselves.

L.. if you shut down the OOC room.. then go for it. To be honest, it might hurt the game.. it might improve it. All I can see, is that it might turn around and find out those who whinge and whine over the littlest thing, and perhaps they will move on if they have nowhere else to go. We will still have TLI-Ops, we all know the names of most of the OPS we can put on notify or such like if its a major urgency. We all probably know at least one knowledgeable player who could point us in the right direction if we aren't sure about something.

I say go for it.. see what it does. There are only two ways it'll end up in reality.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Voknali on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:01 pm

CallieO wrote:From what I can tell, this whole mess started because one person said, "When I enter the OOC room, I don't like people greeting me by molesting me or raping me." Well, heck, that's been part of the game for a long time now. Why not set a series of rules for the OOC room?


There are rules, specifically a rule against this odd tradition, it's under Harassment, Discomfort and Bullying. There is no need for 'new' rules, the rules are already there and I agree that if they can't be followed. If someone goes off the deep end because someone else asks that they not be greeted by something that makes them 'Uncomfortable' then they, the uncomfortable one, have every right to be defended by the already in place rules. Essentially what we're seeing is people forgetting that the rules exists because said rule is inconvenient for them. Now i'm all for a little play with people you know if they're 'ok' with it but if they're not then everyone should respect that if for no other reason than we have rules saying 'respect that'!
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby miyuka on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:06 pm

I highly doubt closing the OOC room will improve the game. It'll be less of a headache, I'd imagine, on us OP's, but I doubt the margin would be by that much. It's a useful channel to have. It lets people come up with stuff, it lets people point out stuff and yes, people do dumb stuff in it. It's the internet. Gotta take the good with the bad. We can just give the bad eggs the boot anyway. I personally find it odd that someone can be so bothered by a /me snuggles Miyuka comment in a text based environment that it turns into such a huge issue. But to each their own. I'd like to think that if someone does have a problem with it they'd have the decency to send a tactful PM about it. "Hey I'm uncomfortable with you pseudo RPing with me in OOC." done and done.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Devidial on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:09 pm

Let me start off by saying that I hardly ever post to these sort of things and I certainly would never oppose an op directly but there are some things that I feel I have to say. I highly respect the ops in this place is a large game that I'm sure has an equally large set of problems and I respect their ability to deal with these problems and adults that don't always act the part now here's my problem.

I'm not one to participate in the playful antics of the OOC some seem to enjoy it but thats not my thing and typically avoid participating in that sort of thing I use the ooc for a different purpose all together. The OOC is that central hub that everyone gathers att some point or another it allows me to keep an eye out for those that I need to speak with those I wish to see ic and those I simply need to pose a question to its rather basic on its face. The ooc also serves other purposes its there that I look for others offering shops or requesting them its a difficult task as it stands to get a shop open as it stands finding that moment when both you and the shopkeep are both free and not involved in some other rp. If the OOC were to be shut down as it functions down finding those far to sparse moments will be impossible if having no way to communicate with the group as a whole at any given time.

As part of the game chars are eequipt with various skills and professions and the OOC has also served quite nicely in fact as a way to see out the providers of these services such as healers and craftsman which otherwise you would have no way of finding without a high degree of difficulty. And finally there is always some event or gathering or something of the like going onand it is through the ooc that such are advertised and more people are made aware of the when and where of such things. I know there's the message board for this as well but lets say that someone plans an event posts it the event isn't for another for another 3 weeks and the public reads it and doesn't go back to that post 'its old news' after all and by the time the event comes up many could of forgotten about the time date and theme of the event. Me personally I try not to bother the ops unless absolutele needed they tend to intimidate the hell out of me and I hate being a pest its always my preference to solve my problems myselfand as far I'm concerned I've aften wanted to rp with an op char but am always to intimidated to ask so I leave it alone I know this last bit is off subject but I really was trying to make a point. Ok well that my strance on the situation
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby PrettylittleToi on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:19 pm

Since I am now feeling as if I started a war without meaning to I feel like I need to say something to try and calm things down.

I asked simply to not have strangers grabbing at me in the OOC room. No raping, no molesting, no tying me up, no fondling, etc. from those that have never said a ‘how do you do?’ to me. I view the OOC room as an Out of Character area - meaning it is me, the player sitting at the keyboard, that strangers are mauling like a piece of meat. It does make me uncomfortable and that is not what I want to feel when I am trying to find my way into fitting into this community.

I took advice to speak up and say something so that everyone would know I was not kosher with it and was told if that people continued then to go to the moderators. I honestly did not expect nor want for this to dissolve into a situation of closing down a room and, being the non confrontational mouse of a person that I am, I am now wishing I had just stayed silent about it especially since it has been pointed out that such behavior is part of the game.

Either way, my intention was not to deprive others of what they enjoy and I do apologize that it has brought all of this about.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Infernis on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:34 pm

PrettylittleToi wrote:Since I am now feeling as if I started a war without meaning to I feel like I need to say something to try and calm things down.

I asked simply to not have strangers grabbing at me in the OOC room. No raping, no molesting, no tying me up, no fondling, etc. from those that have never said a ‘how do you do?’ to me. I view the OOC room as an Out of Character area - meaning it is me, the player sitting at the keyboard, that strangers are mauling like a piece of meat. It does make me uncomfortable and that is not what I want to feel when I am trying to find my way into fitting into this community.

I took advice to speak up and say something so that everyone would know I was not kosher with it and was told if that people continued then to go to the moderators. I honestly did not expect nor want for this to dissolve into a situation of closing down a room and, being the non confrontational mouse of a person that I am, I am now wishing I had just stayed silent about it especially since it has been pointed out that such behavior is part of the game.

Either way, my intention was not to deprive others of what they enjoy and I do apologize that it has brought all of this about.


You're just the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say. Don't fret. This was going to happen sooner or later.

As to the OOC: Let it Go.

I think the game would better served by not having a 'hang-out' spot for people to afk in for hours and hours with no real RP going on.

On average, we'll have 30+ people in there and MAYBE 12 people playing, on a busy day. That's horrible.

The OOC has turned into a spot where people come in and hang out and do NOTHING for hours at a time. They do more than eat up space, they detract from real RP by simply diluting the reason for being in TLI in the first place.

Here are my suggestions:

1) Leave the OOC open for people to sit in when they have their Job Tags on. They don't get a Voice, but they can sit in there to show lurkers what shops are open and which ones aren't.

2) Relax the restriction on lurking in the main RP channels. Keep the restriction to One IC channel at a time, but allow people to lounge about, as long as they post semi-regularly. The focus being to keep people IC and not afk in the OOC.

3) Leave the OOC there for people to pop into and ask questions, but then LEAVE after they've had their questions asked. This leaves the forum clear for new players to come in and have the full attention of the OPs.

In short, turn the 'hang out' OOC into a help station OOC with the primary focus being put back on the IC channels and not socializing in the OOC.


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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Ylith on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:57 pm

Ok, Several times I have come close to stop coming here as the level of nerve racking over the OOC room reaches epic levels of drama, speeches about what ops will do, what non-ops suggest to do, and displeasure over everybody not getting their way.

I am fulling in favor of closing down the OOC if neccesary. But if i may make a suggestion, (there I go, doing myself what I have already complained about others doing); have one op oversee one room a day, enforce the rules that are in place, strictly. Rotate the op assignments so they don't see the same people everyday. That might lessen the strain on their nerves and the players both. Seeing the same people day in and day out, people being people will get on each others "buttons" and cause an eruption.

In short; It might be time for everyone to take a time out?
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Thria on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:10 pm

Oh lookie. Another time, another cycle. The world goes around and around.

Infy; While I agree with 'let it go'... that's about as far as I agree with your post.

How does someone idling in an OOC room detract from real RP? They're not stopping you or anyone else from RP'ing absolutely normally.

Your suggestions dont actually help RP, either, since you cant use OOC to hang around in and look for RP under your system. While I personally am not a fan of arranging scenes, I often get shouted down in that particular argument, so I would assume many/most would be opposed to being told "just go IC and find something".

I'll also point out that the proposal you laid out was tried before. Resulted in multiple OOC hangout rooms being spawned, and, while I disagree with the construction of the phrase, many will point out that this formed 'cliques'. (You and I both know that it's not true - that said 'cliques' have always, and will always, exist, regardless of the OOC room's status and administration's stand against it.)

However, if the administration does decide to repeat the mistake of the past and go back to making OOC a dead zone (are you really wanting the appearance of 30 players in OOC to change to the appearance of 3? what sort of image does that portray to new/potential players?), then I'd like to refine your suggestions somewhat.

1) Have Desdaemona funnel information on who's currently job-tagged to a webpage that can be easily accessed (and Ehl, you know this is easily possible by having Desdaemona trap RAW 353 as a list and strip-searching for anyone with a - followed by an acronymn. Or just funnel the whole thing into a PHP script and spit out the results). If we're dumping OOC, we need to make the website more informative to players in real-time, since they should be using it more. (Personally, I think this is a good idea regardless of whether we dump OOC or not... may work on a prototype for this in mIRC code.)

2) I'm confused about your suggestion #1: Are you suggesting people with job tags be allowed to idle voiceless? So... you're giving the ops the job of policing this and devoicing people any time they start/change jobs. Because Desdaemona will need to continue to voice them in order for your suggestion #3 to be viable.

3) Suggestion #2: Specifics. Gotta be specific. People can idle for X minutes. Course, then you've gotta give ops idle-scripts, or make them do a lot of whois'ing and spending their time whois'ing....

4) Suggestion #3: I dont know about you, but I feel like this would actually be a detriment to new players. The ops, who are now busy whois'ing people and devoicing shop workers, i feel are likely to tell new players (once set up in the world, character approved, etc) "Go have fun, find RP"... whereas currently, more often than not new players are whisked into a scene with an established character. As for 'for people to pop into and ask questions'... that's what TLI-OPS is for, isnt it? We've already GOT a channel for that.

You dont put focus on IC channels by shutting down OOC, you just make people go elsewhere for their OOC. If you shut down a McDonalds, people dont stop being hungry, they just go to the Burger King across the street. The only difference is that the McDonalds staff doesnt have to serve food anymore. So call a shovel a shovel; it's not about making things better, it's making it so the Ops dont deal with drama. Which is fine. Until someone starts complaining in PM. Or Email. Or the Forum. Because they cant do it in OOC.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Kerianna on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:19 am

I absolutely think closing OOC will do nothing but destroy pretty much any sense of community we have. People will get cliquier, and new players will more or less be SOL.

That said...if you do want to close it, the shop thing definitely needs to be addressed. It's already a nightmare to find a given shop open most times, especially for non-primetime players. Maybe making shopping a function of Des that anyone can do or something, just not get discounts without RPing it? I don't know, but something.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:35 am

Lets begin.

Corbin Adal wrote:You say that the drama is in the way? Stop paying attention. Stop getting involved. There is a TON of drama revolving around the Ops and none of it has to do with the gameplay. It's all a ridiculous blur of OOC and IC, which I personally can't stand. My character is not me and I am not my character. But it seems that a lot of people have issues with that idea, and it burns into drama in the OOC.

Long story short: Don't close OOC. Leave OOC instead. It was asserted in the channel recently by Infernis that if we got rid of OOC, people would adjust. I assert that the sentiment is true, but that the Ops who don't like the OOC channel should "adjust" by staying away from it and from the drama within.

If new players show up, they won't get raped. They'll get directed to #tli-ops and it'll be done. Simple.


First. I'd like to know how you 'think' the Ops are having all this drama that has anything to do with you? I'd be VERY curious to know that. Off topic. Subject.

Second. Its our job. There are rules in the OOC. I'm sure you must know this. So telling us not to notice it when its 'brought' to us. All the time. Is silly in the extreme.

If new players show up you'll just tell them to join the ops channel.. Right.. So you'll be staying in channel 24/7 will you? Forgive me if this sounds rather sarcastic, it is meant to be. You haven't said any real reason or valid reason to the OOC staying open and frankly, the Drama that was caused around you while this was going on, simply seems to show our point about the drama in the OOC.. and what happens because of it. Not to mention Fariday, having an Op on ignore and stating so, insulting the Ops that weren't even speaking to him until he started insulting them. But somehow, there is no drama going on and everything is cheerful, right?

I'm not sure in all truth, I'm following your thought system here Corbin. At all. Regardless, thank you for your thoughts. Who knows what might stick in the mind.

Adonai! To be perfectly honest, if folks opened their own chat box rooms, more power to them. Then they can govern their own channels, make their own rules, enforce their own rules and deal with the drama that occurs on their own. Then perhaps they'll understand exactly why sometimes its best to just bite the lip and go on to more fun things. I would love to do nothing in the ooc but joke about, and help folks out. Thats it! No big secret. Thank you for your thoughts.


Callie. I thought your words were perhaps cool headed but I'm not sure a grand reasoning. A point is made however of how will you know if the shops are open? Go to town IC'ly and find out. I know its rather simplistic sounding but then again, we may actually get people doing their jobs and real role play happening because of it. I rather like the thought. Onto your second statement. I have kicked them out. I have banned. Much to chagrin of those that were kicked and banned. They run to the board and further the drama rather then taking the hint to stop. I actually HATE yelling at an adult. I would much rather talk about the latest book I'm reading. So would they I would imagine. I find it completely foolish to be telling an adult to act like an adult.
Thank you for your thoughts.

Twerlinger: If the OOC were shut down, we would be sure to have ops in every IC channel doing the jobs we were first asked to do, so I'm pretty sure you would know when the ops were on, I would make sure of it. :) Thank you for your thoughts.


Voknali. Thank you for your thoughts.

Miyuka, very good point. Thank you for your thoughts.

Devidial: A most thought provoking post and I appreciate the respectful tone given. I appreciate more that you've given all of us something to steer our thoughts to. Thank you.

Echo: You didn't start some war my dear. This is not your fault. This is merely the straw that was put upon the camels back, so to speak and has been building for a few years now. Its just one more thing added. We all have great advice, but only you know what you want. Thats important. You should speak up, but next time, just bring it to an Op or, quietly PM a friend and get their opinion. Sometimes, knowing what you can and cannot do makes the difference. Do NOT feel badly. I believe you did the correct thing.

Infernis: I think I can agree with relaxing the lurk in an IC channel if the OOC is no longer there. I think it was Sarai that said it used to work well. I thought it a good point by her actually. God I hope I'm spelling her nick correct or she might hit me with a frying pan. Thank you for your thoughts.

Ylith. Well said, thought provoking as well. Thank you.

Thria: Sound reasoning in some points, not sound in others. Desdeamona was made to keep Stats, Levels desc, dice shop items. Not to do a patrol and keep other information and shes already having more then enough within her robotic like text to make up a kingdom for real. I'm unclear on your last suggestion, if its a suggestion at all. It really isn't about US losing the drama, its about the Drama being lost. Completely. While I realize this is a pipe dream, and its fairly laughable, there is to much drama, way to much, over OOC issues IC and what not that gets dragged from one end of the place to the next, and yes, it does affect IC. It does indeed. Person A can't stand Person C but adore Person B, but Person A and C play with B. Person A bitches about person B to Person C..... Drama begins.. Yes, it happens. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not. We are human. With human emotions. I get human, trust me. I sure the hell am human to the 2xPower! But.. Somewhere, someone has to say, enough.. to much. But thank you for your thoughts.


Ahh Keri, such a sweet girl. Can I bottle you up? You make me smile. Actually, many of these posts have had me smiling. Whether anyone agrees with everything here or not, what you all have done so far? Is agree that you care.. if you care, there is hope things can find a way to work out. Thats real progress. Not just me yelling, the ops yelling, giving boots and bans. It might solve that particular issue but it never quite solves 'all' that is needed. A band aide only covers so much :/
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