The OOC Room

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Re: The OOC Room

Postby crow on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:39 pm

Just for the record.

My post regarding the OOC was made before the situation was clarified and before other ooc rooms were opened.
At this point the other OOC rooms fill the role I was looking for well enough and if it helps the OP's in more easily telling people to stfu about drama in their pm than I consider that a success. The only thing I am not entirely clear on yet is if it's a violation of the rules to point other players to the alternative ooc rooms or not, could someone clear that up for me?

My post regarding old men in rocking chairs was meant to somewhat humorously bring across that I am tired of people always saying the game is crap compared to when they started. I may have failed in conveying that and if it was offensive instead I apologize it was not my intention to do more than to get a 'don't you just hate airplane food' type laugh while making that point.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:05 am

Yes, its completely a'ok with us if you let people know where these other ooc rooms are. Just do it 'Privately' Not openly in these forums and not openly in TLI channels. Pm them, MB PM them. I've sent a few people over myself.

Please, by all means! Make sure folks know where these places are! I'm more then happy to tell them if asked!
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Siegfried on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:13 am

crow wrote:Just for the record.

My post regarding the OOC was made before the situation was clarified and before other ooc rooms were opened.
At this point the other OOC rooms fill the role I was looking for well enough and if it helps the OP's in more easily telling people to stfu about drama in their pm than I consider that a success. The only thing I am not entirely clear on yet is if it's a violation of the rules to point other players to the alternative ooc rooms or not, could someone clear that up for me?


I for one, would be very interested in knowing what those alternative ooc rooms are. I know of one, but from your post there seem to be multiple. So if you could send me a list in a private message (to comply with what L'aquera said) I'd be grateful.

While I just came back yesterday after a two years more or less forced hiatus, so i really have no title to give an opinion on the matter at hand (I wasn't here when the drama exploded), I can only say that the lack of an official OOC room really put me in a tight spot, as I didn't really know what the hell to do with myself once I finally managed to retrieve my password and log back in, until someone was nice enough to point me towards one of the unofficial rooms.

I can only imagine that actual newbies in need of guidance and simply someone to say "hello" to before getting their feet wet in RP would feel even more lost.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Kitani on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:15 pm

I think this thread needs to be locked, so people will stop dragging in their soapboxes to preach from...

It's not helping. It's only singling out a few people as a bit more venomous than others...

Oh, and Crow? The "golden days" did exist. I remember them fondly. Sure, things have changed... some things for the better, some for the worse (in my opinion, of course)... But seven to ten years ago back in my early years of TLI? Well... I'll not preach from my own little soapbox... But I do know that I'd go back to that time in a heartbeat.

... And probably be juiced on by a purple nymph... Or hit with a flaming frying pan... Or be forced between the legs of a body-suit wearing catman... Or, hell... Maybe even have my panties stolen, IN CHARACTER, by Ehlanna herself...

Mmh...
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Infernis on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:14 pm

Kitani wrote:I think this thread needs to be locked, so people will stop dragging in their soapboxes to preach from...

It's not helping. It's only singling out a few people as a bit more venomous than others...

Oh, and Crow? The "golden days" did exist. I remember them fondly. Sure, things have changed... some things for the better, some for the worse (in my opinion, of course)... But seven to ten years ago back in my early years of TLI? Well... I'll not preach from my own little soapbox... But I do know that I'd go back to that time in a heartbeat.

... And probably be juiced on by a purple nymph... Or hit with a flaming frying pan... Or be forced between the legs of a body-suit wearing catman... Or, hell... Maybe even have my panties stolen, IN CHARACTER, by Ehlanna herself...

Mmh...



As has been said by others, this game is defined by its players, not its OPs. And the game 'has' changed in the years that I've been here, to the point where it's not the same game.

I won't waste your time with nostalgic anecdotal stories of the past, but the gist of it is this: The uncertainty is gone. The fear is gone. The not knowing what's going to happen when you go IC...is gone.

But, we're getting back to that, I think. Someone else said earlier that the lack of an official OOC has separated the RPers from the social club members. I'm okay with that. Some people can be both, some people can't. But, I've seen more RP going on in the last couple of weeks than I have in years before. And the lack of drama and stress has been far more rewarding than you can imagine.

In weeks past, before the closing, I can't count the number of times that I'd have RP just 'stop' mid-stream because all attention was being drawn to the OOC due to some stupid fight and feud over 'nothing'. Not so much anymore.

Maybe this is exactly what we needed. A fixation on RP again and not babysitting an unnecessary OOC.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Siegfried on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:59 pm

There is a little byproduct of the removal of the OOC channel that is kind of practically inconvenient.

Desdaemona immediately logs you off as soon as you exit all TLI official channels, which means that if I have to go afk a bit, or I simply change locations forgetting to open the new channel before closing the previous one, I'll get logged off and I'll have to log in again.

It's not a BIG deal, but it's a bit inconvenient.

It's be nice to have a a #TLI-dump (or whatever you wanna call it, really) channel where desdaemona sits but no one is voiced (so no, it wouldn't be a replacement of OOC to chat), and everyone can keep open. That way Desdaemona would still perceive our presence in the TLI "network" and keep us logged in, even if we're taking a break or changing environments.

Just a partly related suggestion, do with it what you will :D
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Phaing on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:27 am

Huh, guess I better get this out before this thing is locked.
Wasn't going to say anything at all, since I only occasionally visit the RP these days. You'll understand why in a bit, but for now-

Crow's first post on this thread really hit home with me, since I only just discovered the new situation today (told you I was an occasional player now).
Wasn't always that way. 4.5 years ago I got started here and went nuts. Even got banned once, for a whole 3 days. Learned my lesson and moved on, and it was great. Eventually, I stopped doing Quests because I just wasn't any good at them ... a lesson I have to learn again from time to time, but that makes me more tolerant of other people's foibles.

I have been stalked, RPed with clingy weirdos, and all the rest of it. That all ceased about one year into it, which made me think I was clever or something. Nope. The only thing that changed was that I stopped hanging around the ooc and got down to looking for RP in the IC channels.
That's it.
I use the ooc to see who is on, let them see me, and PM to get set up. Once I get into RP, I'm there for 6-8 hours, and barely look at the ooc all the while. Honest, people were always telling me "so&so is asking about you" and I'm like "How should I know?"

Anyway...
I might get in trouble for saying this, but I'm afraid that a lot of the people who spend too much time in ooc are doing it because they can't or aren't bothering to get much RP. Either that, or they are new and not getting into the rhythm of things yet. The later, I try to locate in RP rooms and encourage them. Yeah, I guess Phaing comes off as something of a slut half the time, but so be it.
(Doing exactly that as I make this post, as a matter of fact, and it's great fun)
And who knows? I think a reasonable amount of encouragement is what it would take to get the rest of them off the ooc and into proper RP. Think about it; lots of folks come here because they don't have the social skills to go out and get laid in RL. Imagine how discouraging it would be to meet the same social stone-wall in a virtual environment. A little reaching out on our part, and a more adventurous attitude on their part might be the solution to about 90% of these cases.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but bad RPers can become good ones, they can learn. And if, as I suspect, social awkwardness leads people here in some cases, then more than just RPing can be learned here.
Here comes the laughter, but hang on a second.
I had never done anything remotely adventurous, not like you see around here. I wanted to play at it but had no idea how, even had to take the time to find my Char regular work before I felt comfortable here. How silly is that? But, I decided to go really nuts, to try things I would never do in RL, and to take it seriously enough to learn from my mistakes. And, how did it go?
Well, this boney, 4-eyed Asian wench with a nose like Cher has got herself a genuine stud of a man, and as of 4 weeks ago yesterday I have the ring to prove it! No, this is not a 'yay me' moment, I'm just trying to communicate what I got out of all this myself. No, I'm NOT saying that RP here got me all that, but it helped get me out of my shell, that's for sure. And that's also why I'm so scarce now; I don't get many chances to put the hours in for a good RP session any more.
Too busy doing it to talk about it much, I guess you could say.

So, I'm sorry, Crow. Much as it pains me to do so, I have to take L's side on this. In the long run, its better for everyone.
Yes, we need an ooc chat-room, but absolutely nothing that makes this place unique ever happens there.

Well, that's my two mhls-worth, okay?
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:09 pm

Ok.. A few things. Thank you so much for some of you graciously pointing out a few things. I do appreciate it. And, I am listening. Which, I realize, isn't supposed to happen. ;)

1: I tend to agree that those working need an avenue to show they 'are' on the job. So.. I'll get a few Ops opinions on this including SB's thoughts on the matter and likely I'll ask the OOC be open to those working, but not a chat room place. Just that you would be allowed to sit in the OOC IF you have your work tag on to let others know you are on and working and people can pop into the ooc to see if anyone IS working but then MUST leave immediately until such a time if at all, the OOC is opened again. I'll inform you in this thread when you may do so or.. not do so depending on thoughts.

2: Yes, there will be changes made to the OOC IF its ever opened again and sometimes, I think it never will be and other days I think, it will. Who knows. I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatched at this rate.

So... these are the new rules set down for the OOC and yes, they will be going on the site once the OOC is/might be opened;
A: You will be kicked and banned at the first insult that flies. Whether to each other, or too the ops.
A2: Insults, drama, poking prodding at each other or an op is what we consider offensive.
B: No warnings. No talking. No caring, no talking in pm for hours.
C: Why you are being kicked will be put into the Kick/Ban along with "There will be no discussions."
D: One hour for the first offense, one day for the second offense, one week for the third offense, permanently for the fourth offense.

If its not TLI related, we will no longer listen UNLESS! A: Stalking. B: "Threats" C: Emotional Blackmail

Logs are still required.

These do not supersede all other IC rules or channel rules, they are simply the new OOC rules you will be expected to follow. And we the Ops will be expected to enforce.

I'm not asking anyone to follow these new rules. You will follow them, or you will be out. The Ops are not here to fall into the drama and we will not tolerate it to fall into the OOC. The OOC is for asking questions about the game, telling jokes that are err. tasteful... for TLI, sharing links is a'ok. We are simply saying, no more HS bs. I'm pretty sure I don't have to spell out what I mean, but just in case!

Player A Says "Hey, nimrod, knock it off" Player A is kicked/banned

Player B Says "Fuck off asshat!" Player B is kicked/banned

Player C says "HA HA! Told you not to say that!" Player C is kicked/banned

Player A Comes back and says "I didn't do anything to be kicked!" Player A is banned for a day.



Stay respectful, keep your drama to yourselves. Don't even slyly insult. You have a grievance with someone? Take it to their PM and SOLVE IT! Don't bring it to us. Don't bring it to the ooc room. Except what is laid out above, we won't be listening and likely you'll be kicked for coming to us with your drama. Don't like someone? IGNORE THEM! Not do a /ignore Just.. ignore them. Can't resolve it that way? Talk to a friend and make sure its not going to be vented into the OOC. You STILL must ask to PM someone, and you still need their permission to do so. Don't do so and pop into someone's pm insulting and drama'esquing away and that party complains? You'll be out. This is all very simple and easily followed. Only the Ops can come knocking into someone's pm uninvited, and we aren't going to be doing so unless we have to speak with you regarding an Op/TLI matter or we've already sought your permission to speak with you.

Again, this is all pretty simplistic and I'm positive after a while that things will go smoothly. We want you to have fun, have a safe environment to come talk in and play when the mood strikes you. If an Op nudges you to stop doing something? Stop doing it. If they nudge you to go do something? Go do it.

Oddly no, you won't be removed from your jobs/positions/rp fun in TLI just because you disagree with an Op. If that was so, I know a lot of people would be out of their jobs/positions right now. This thread is full of them ;) . Your opinion should matter in so far as its kept as respectful as your anger allows. Yes, we all lose our tempers. Gosh not like I ever do that! *HA HA Ok, I joke!* so I understand. WE ARE ALL HUMAN.... yes.. we are all human. And if something is said that makes me pause and think, regardless of how I 'feel' or don't 'feel' I will concede the point. And many of you have had very good points. I didn't always agree, but they were still GOOD points.

NO I will not close out this thread nor lock it. I realize people get heated, but, people get heated if you just discuss the weather. That will never change.

Feel free to reply. NO I don't expect you to agree, no, I won't fire you if you do. Yes, I think thats kinda funny. Yes, I LOL'd when I read that. ;)

On an unrelated but perhaps related note! I have been asking my Ops to drop XP now and again on those role playing. I've found it rather refreshing and I've seen some VERY delicious lil scenes going on.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Ehlanna on Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:31 pm

L`aquera wrote:<snip>
We are simply saying, no more HS bs.<snip>


Er, what?
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 am

The Queen English sucks
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Ehlanna on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:15 am

The Queen English sucks .... what? And who is Queen English anyway?
Or did you, perchance, happen to mean the Queen's English? ;)
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:21 am

Nope. I meant, the Queen English, which is to say, that blarney you speak through your nose at the rest of us :D
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Kree on Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:31 am

Honestly. I've avoided this thread. Why? Because all I read is whining, crying, and boohooing. I mean really. I open it up, and first thing I see is "This is unfair, or this is unjust, or omg why?" But, I came on to see L's new rules. Something I can read and make sense out of!! Holy moly!

Anyway......

Rules? Finally! I agree. No, I'm not agreeing to get on anyones good side. I'm agreeing because we need the structure and the ZERO TOLERANCY rule. Simple as that. Without structure, there is no flow. No guidance leaves people to do as they please, and hence, we go back to square one. But hey, who am I to know that?

That is all..
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby Gojin-Ryong on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:17 pm

well wasn't going to post since I've left the game and came back a lot, and probably wont even stay. But nope it isn't the same game anymore, rarely do you even see any rape scenes anymore, and slaves have been replaced with concubines. Also Im going to avoid the 'unofficial' ooc rooms now even though I was invited to one of them, though there needs to be away for people to see what shops are open or ask for shops somehow. But, yeah this game has changed everyone just goes out gets protection from a noble or 'mate' then if you 'look' at them wrong they go run and tell them then the noble or 'mate' is after you. So yeah the game has changed everyone has already 'cliqued' up with who they want to play with theres barely any new people cause theres really no incentive to start from scratch in this game, its too much work to try to get established and try to get into one of the 'cliques' already formed they would have to start and first find a noble who will 'protect' them til they are high enough level to do it themselves. It wasn't like that in the old days when there were plenty of low levels and other new people coming in. Its pretty much the same people that just make new chars to rp with other people who they already play with who make new chars, the old people who used to play in the old days have already moved on or don't play anymore, with some old people saying they want the old ways but don't do nothing to move things towards that. But yeah that's pretty much the way I see things, also when new people do join they usually just get ignored I've seen that happen plenty over the years.
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Re: The OOC Room

Postby L`aquera on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Ok. Some changes.

If you are 'working' and have your work 'tag' on. You are allowed to sit within the OOC until you are done with your work. Players are welcome to pop into the ooc to see whom is working but thats it. Once you see whom is there, go to the town or where ever and get your shop on.

Secondly, a few of the ops feel that they don't wish chattering/blathering/link sharing/joke giving within the OOC. The OOC is for helping those about the game. So.. While the rules still stand for the OOC, you may not chatter, joke, link, nor sit for extended periods within the OOC. The conclusion is really that you have a few very nice rooms that are player run and that seems to work very well in our favor and your own. If you wish to share all of the above you can go there or, create something else or.. whatever, but the OOC room is for game related help and talk only. I could only agree really as I've not been given any arguments to the contrary that this is likely a better solution all around.

Thirdly, before people get strange, well, too late for that I suppose. YES.. I deleted Alrens thread. Why? Because I was asked to take a look over it and see if it were too 'Rantish' for an Absence thread. It really was. You have a rants and rave forum, that is where you rant, or rave. The Absence and Return is just for that, if you are leaving, on a LOA for a little while, have sickness, issues, returns. It isn't for a gathering of hate mongering, you have a forum for that of which I'm happy to say the Ops don't bother with or read. All you have to do is follow the rules laid into it.

No.. Alren was not removed from his positions because he disagreed with any Op or because he thought the closing of the OOC was dumb/purple/gave it five thumbs down. He was removed and fired because he chose to leave without letting us know if he would be back, talk with those in charge in his absence and left us with nothing to go on. In your positions and jobs, you participate, if you can't participate in something you wanted to take on, find someone whom can if you are not going to be there until your return and leave us some notification you ARE returning. If you fail to do those things, you will be removed. Its that simple. Its also very adult like and we wanted adults in the position. If you don't like these answers this is not my problem and frankly, nor do I care. Its the way it has always been.

If you don't like anything thats been written here in any of these threads, all I can say is, suck it up. I didn't like quite a few of them but then again, I wasn't looking to like any of the replies, I was looking for points Good or bad. Something to help me with a decision I was still weighing in on. The fact of the matter is, when I make a post, I wait to see what people think, say, will do. Not to see whom is going to 'yes man' me to death. I don't respect that. I was looking for that honesty emotion and thought and words. Whether they were "L You are the biggest bitch I've ever seen and crazy to boot!" or if they were "I can agree with this but on this point you are wrong". There is always a method to what I do but I don't do it without wondering how everyone else will handle it. I can weigh in. The problem always comes with, did I make the right decision? Did I follow the gut? Did I follow the loudest player? Was the quietest player given enough credit? Did I read Gojins words carefully enough. Did Alren have a good point in his anger? The answers are yes.. yes and yes.

In the end. I take in ops thoughts, wishes and players thoughts, wishes. And I put them on the scale.. I swing towards the majority and then I weigh in on that. Then I speak to my husband. Heavily. Then I take a few friends aside and get their views. I'm not done taking in views, but I am done with the drama. I see plenty of folks that said they were leaving but keep coming back here to cause more drama. Eventually, I'm going to give a heave ho.... and don't think I won't.

There was a girl I talked to just the other day. We cannot STAND each other! This is an established fact. She'll know I speak of her the moment she reads this, but.. know what? She took hold of her spine, PM'd me and 'offered' something unexpected. Not praise, not "Oh I love you!" she offered to help out with something. Not for me, not for someone else, but strictly from a game and character related view point. I was.. impressed. I have a lil more respect for her now. I still said no, but in future I might not say no... and I may even feel that she has a place where she would and will best fit in and be happy.

In the end, thats really all anyone here that helps run this game, theses forums and owns this game, can ask for. It was a humbling experience and I would like to thank her for that. If not for moments like that, being a part of this place just wouldn't be the same. Its changed, yes it has. Its been good, bad, good good bad, very bad and good again and its always going to be that way. How we handle it, will define us as human in the end and just how well we'll handle ourselves, children, life and strangers around us.
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