Elves and Maturity

Questions and suggestions that don't fit anywhere else in this area.

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Re: Elves and Maturity

Postby Lyanna on Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:11 am

I don't always agree with the old adage "it it ain't broke, don't fix it", but this is one of those cases where I think it applies. For as long as I can remember, 80 has been the age of majority for TLI elves. Changing this is not only unneccesary, but will be very annoying for people who have based part of their RP on that (which, I imagine, is a good portion of people who play elves, since age is kinda sorta important :P in an intelligent being's development. I think changing it to 18 would be inconsiderate to just about anyone who plays an elf. I know that I would not appreciate having to rewrite the whole timeline of Raven Swift's life if 17 years were knocked off the Torian age of majority.

I think Ielenia's idea is better. Put the age of majority for a race on that race's page, ideally towards the top, so people see it clearly when they're choosing which race to make their character. If someone misses this, it's a simpler matter to correct that one person than to change things for everyone, including people who've played their character based on the current figures for years. :roll:
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Re: Elves and Maturity

Postby Stormbringer on Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:49 pm

I can see both sides of it and agree with both arguments. But for the sake of those who have set up their roleplay and back story based on 80 - which includes the vast majority of elven characters going back years - I can't see any compelling reason to make a change.
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Re: Elves and Maturity

Postby Dante_Ambrogio on Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:59 pm

Stormbringer wrote:It's been a long-term tradition that elves reach adult at 80, though I'm not sure where it originated. Maybe a carry-over from another place? I tend to agree it can be confusing and that there isn't any necessary correlation between long life and the process of reaching physical maturity.

I'll be interested to see what other replies we get here.


I am just now finding this thread, well after it has been relevant I am sure but perhaps not and maybe it will be relevant for new players that are joining TLI at the time I have found it and in the future after today on September 8 of 2022.

I tend to follow Stormbringer here; perhaps because I have been playing fantasy games and reading fantasy materials for my entire life since Elves and Dwarves and the longer lived races were first created but I also have seen it evolve and so I will offer my thoughts on the matter.

It is generally the standard that Elves and Dwarves reach Physical maturity fairly close in line with most of the lesser lived species though not exactly; in truth they actually physically age slower so full physical maturity for Longer Lived species tends to be around the age of 25-30 years rather than the late teenage years to about 25 years of age. That being said however; maturity in and of itself is not simply a matter of physical looks and growth but also of Mental Growth and in this area is where things get a bit more complicated. Humans, Orcs, Goblins and their other lesser lived counterparts tend to reach full Mental maturity fairly close to the age where they reach Physical Maturity however they also tend to get set and ingrained into the same habits and patterns that their social groups and guardian/parent figures either taught or displayed around them as they themselves were growing and then they spend a large portion of their lifetimes learning new and unlearning the things that they figure out on their own to not be advantageous to themselves.

Longer lived races on the otherhand [and I am going to address Elves first because they are one end of the spectrum while Dwarves are the other] do not reach Mental Maturity until typically between 80-120 years of age across the board; however each of the longer lived races is different from one another as well and I will get into specifics below:

Elves
Elves spend the first 50 years of their lives living with their families much like humans spend the first part of theirs doing the same. Upon turning 51 however Elves generally undergo a ceremony where they accept the fact that they have found their "identity" during this time with their family; however this identity is not a solid identity that stays solid throughout their entire lifetime it simply serves as the very first building block of the very complex identity that every Elf ultimately ends up shifting through from the time that they undergo this ceremony until the day that they finally die. Regardless of the type of elf this ceremony is done at age 51 and then every single elf leaves the family home to pursue studies and exploration of themselves away from their families and that influence of what they have known during that entire time during which this building block was constructed and found. This span of self exploration and study can take anywhere between 50 years to 150 years for most elves, though some find it to take fewer or less and every elf is unique and only returns to and initiates contact with their family for the first time since leaving home once they feel that they have sufficiently explored themselves and are capable of undergoing the rituals and ceremonies required of their specific clans, Houses, what have you, to earn their names from either their gods or their elders and the name earned at this point will be the name that most elves will carry for the remainder of their time among mortals, though of course that name may change forms, may get extended or shortened, the elf may gain or lose surnames, gain or lose titles, and in some cases an elf may even lose their sense of self and decide to completely sever their ties with this name and undergo the self-exploration process once again to earn a new name.

It is this secondary process that culminates in the gaining of an Elves initial name (i.e. their non-familial name) which marks an Elves achievement of full mental maturity and it is not unheard of but not terribly common to encounter an elf that is willing to travel beside non-elves until they have achieved this step.

Dwarves
Dwarves; unlike the Elves have much more in common with the lesser lived races than they will ever readily admit and if one points it out to them they should be prepared to receive the blunted end of a hammer or the sharp edge of an axe in return as it is an observation that dwarves resent.

Similar to Elves a dwarf reaches Physical Maturity right around the age of 25-30 years; their body growing more slowly than lesser lived bodies, however that does not mean that picking a fight with a young dwarf is a good idea as even a young dwarf is a fierce combatant... perhaps even moreso for the fact that they have not had any benefit of years to temper their naturally quick anger and naturally born grudges.

On the matter of Mental Maturity for Dwarves they are simultaneously similar to Elves in that they reach full mental maturity later than lesser lived races however in a shorter amount of time than the fairer folk do; Dwarves are born with axe in hand; a result of the fact that they are the premier weapon and armoursmiths of any realm they reside in and when it comes to stonework and masonry there is none finer than professional masons that have been looking at stone since they cried their first breath beneath the roots of the world. This same fact however means that their early life is 1 part war and fighting and 2 parts mining and crafting and this makes up much of the first 50 years of a Dwarven life; learning the rote and routine that is necessary to keep a Dwarfhold functioning like the well oiled machine that they always seem to be.

Upon reaching the age of 51 every dwarf is mandatorily drafted into the Clanhold Militia where they learn how to Fight as a Cohesive Unit and as a Dwarven Warrior; this is also where any Magical Talent is routed out and refined and where Clerics, Healers, and Dwarven Runemasters and Mages will begin their never-ending training and service to their clans.

Upon reaching the age of 76 a young dwarf is given the choice of maintaining the caste of his own family and continuing to carry the family tradition [and most dwarves choose to do exactly that as Dwarves are fiercely loyal to blood and home] or to either seek their own position within the clan or fight to improve either their families position or the entirety of the clans position; though failure of either task comes at a great cost indeed with the latter 2 choices being given only 25 years within which to succeed before the dwarf is cast out into the subtunnels with naught but a shield and a weapon of their choice to either fight their way back as a redeemed Dwarf or die as a dishonored and forgotten Clanless.; The reward for Success is equally great as the risk for failure though with few successful dwarves being risen to the status of Paragons and being granted the rights to not only do as they please[including leave the clanhold and travel the world freely, always with the ability to return home] but also being hailed as a Clan Hero, with a statue of them being Erected in the Hall of Champions and with their families being raised into the Ruling Caste.

In either result[except one of death] the Dwarf achieves Mental maturity at the age of 100 years and can then further study from a basic craft and begin to further explore the world with the graces of the Clanhold leadership and appropriate cause; though of course the dwarves will always take their weight in gold for the work they offer the broader world, for they know their worth and one doesn't wish to be placed on a Clanholds Book of Grudges...
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