Physical class change

Questions and suggestions for new weapons, changes to weapons and the combat system

Moderators: Stormbringer, Ehlanna, Cleothina

Physical class change

Postby Cayenne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:13 pm

As it stands, physical classes and magical classes approach the use of stamina very different. For a physical class, stamina is a set loss equal to that of defense. 2 stamina per swing of any type of weapon the user is capable of holding.

For mages, their stamina usage is set off how many slots they use of a specific spell ranging from 1 to 15 with some exceptions.

If the physical system was brought in line with the magical system it would solve a lot of inherit issues.

1) Balance. It would be much more simple to balance the two sides as they would both have a greater dependence upon stamina and thus new weapons, further enchantments, and honing processes in line with the cost of their spell counterparts.

2) Would allow physical classes to pull punches, and force more strategic use of their weapons bonuses. It would be a boon to lower levels as they could cut the cost of an attack down to one stamina, adding only one attack to their total. (What happens with unarmed might be an issue?)

3) There would be more uniformity in the teaching of new players and players new to combat itself.
User avatar
Cayenne
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:34 pm

Re: Physical class change

Postby Akaton on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:54 pm

I don't see how making physical classes spend more stamina for more powerful weapons balances anything. If anything it just tips the scale towards magical classes even further. Given we have access to focus enchantments that reduce stamina costs.
User avatar
Akaton
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:13 am

Re: Physical class change

Postby Cayenne on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:01 pm

Akaton wrote:I don't see how making physical classes spend more stamina for more powerful weapons balances anything. If anything it just tips the scale towards magical classes even further. Given we have access to focus enchantments that reduce stamina costs.


As I said in the post, making them both work on the same system means they can be compared more evenly, thus easier to balance as a whole. Also, mentioned was the idea that with that would come the chance for further honing of weapons (At cost) through magic, and blacksmiths at costs closer associated with later spell slots.
User avatar
Cayenne
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:34 pm

Re: Physical class change

Postby miyuka on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:33 pm

One of the advantages that phys classes have is that them swinging a sword no matter how many bonuses it has on it, will always be 2 stamina (or 1 stamina if they are shooting a bow of some kind) A mage will spend anywhere between 2 and over 16 stamina for any given spell depending on the slots. Giving physical's the ability to still have the option to swing their powerful weapon as Well as have all out access to what would basically be spells would not help balance anything. I'm gonna tell you right now the purpose of the physical sphere is going to be to give Physical classes slight different options in battle, they will not be comparable to spells in power or stamina cost (for the most part) if you are looking at things at a per level basis. Physical classes will still be meant to primarily rely on swinging (or shooting) their weapons.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Physical class change

Postby Farvel on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:45 pm

miyuka wrote:A mage will spend anywhere between 2 and over 16 stamina for any given spell depending on the slots.

Er... no. A mage will spend anything between 1 stamina for a 7 slot spell and 9 stamina for a 15 slot spell, unless the player does something completely silly like not spending a lousy 1300 on a focus enchant. As has been shown several times already, they can actually cause more damage for less stamina.

Exception being spells with their own stamina costs, of course.
Image
User avatar
Farvel
Predominate
Predominate
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Physical class change

Postby miyuka on Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:56 pm

I came here to answer the original posters' post. What I said isn't changed by what you are trying to correct me on Farvel, so before you turn this into another magical versus physical topic of absolute uselessness, please stick to the topic and don't add in your little side remarks. Sure if you use a focus enchant, it cost one stamina. I have been corrected. Move on. The point being. Making Physical classes spend MORE stamina to basically what? have spells? Is not the direction we are going.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Physical class change

Postby Cayenne on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:19 pm

miyuka wrote:I came here to answer the original posters' post. What I said isn't changed by what you are trying to correct me on Farvel, so before you turn this into another magical versus physical topic of absolute uselessness, please stick to the topic and don't add in your little side remarks. Sure if you use a focus enchant, it cost one stamina. I have been corrected. Move on. The point being. Making Physical classes spend MORE stamina to basically what? have spells? Is not the direction we are going.


I can see that, if that's not the direction I believe it's completely fine. It was more me brainstorming on how to better balance out the two sides, and add more interest to playing a physical class during combat - as of currently you basically keep swinging until you get close to running out of stamina and then take a moment to recharge. It's very interesting in the beginning levels when you don't have a lot of stamina to give -and the risk reward for going for another attack versus risking being hit by your opponent is high. As stamina goes up - that risk goes away and then you mostly worry about mages with spells that drain stamina (In regards to the worries about stamina).
User avatar
Cayenne
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:34 pm

Re: Physical class change

Postby L`aquera on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:37 pm

So.. for everyone, its super easy to spend that amount of mhl? Hmm.. Perhaps Farvel is correct. What we have is an influx of easy 'coin'/'cash' and that should be looked at. I have been kicking around thoughts about removing all coin except 500 and stopping the automatic pay of 20 mhl and the ability to give coin to anyone but a store. Perhaps this bears more merit as I thought it was silly and certainly folks weren't walking around with so much coin that 1300 mhl was easy breezy... Thank you. I'll take this into HC and we'll see what kind of work around we can use with this to much mhl floating around. Seems folks are bored.
Image
Don't breath, don't think.. for I am the shadow that will forever over take you..
User avatar
L`aquera
High Council
High Council
 
Posts: 4739
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 9:46 pm

Re: Physical class change

Postby miyuka on Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:55 pm

Yeah, you got it Cayenne, that's the basic gist of it, though the physical sphere will complicate that a bit more, but not as greatly as spells would for a mage, but physical stuff won't be as potent when comparing physical ability to a magical one on the same level, if that make sense.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Physical class change

Postby Cayenne on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:02 am

miyuka wrote:Yeah, you got it Cayenne, that's the basic gist of it, though the physical sphere will complicate that a bit more, but not as greatly as spells would for a mage, but physical stuff won't be as potent when comparing physical ability to a magical one on the same level, if that make sense.


I was just thinking of something that would be better show off the choices you make in a fight about how much energy you put into every swing. If you out throwing nothing but haymakers you'd run the risk of running out of stamina and leaving yourself vulnerable. As it stands currently there wasn't any nuance for the fight itself outside of the actual roleplay of it (Which, is the important part).

Such a thing would also make warriors treat stamina as a more important stat - not something where you reach a certain level and you should be fine (Excluding encounters with mages).

Just a thought though~
User avatar
Cayenne
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:34 pm

Re: Physical class change

Postby Farvel on Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:54 am

miyuka wrote:so before you turn this into another magical versus physical topic of absolute uselessness, please stick to the topic and don't add in your little side remarks.

I thought the topic was comparing the attack power vs. stamina costs of physical and magical attacks, and how to balance one against the other. I pointed out that the existence of focus enchantments and their considerable stamina reduction is a factor that must necessarily be accounted for in that comparison. I can't see how that observation is off-topic, TBH.

L`aquera wrote:So.. for everyone, its super easy to spend that amount of mhl? Hmm.. Perhaps Farvel is correct. What we have is an influx of easy 'coin'/'cash' and that should be looked at. I have been kicking around thoughts about removing all coin except 500 and stopping the automatic pay of 20 mhl and the ability to give coin to anyone but a store. Perhaps this bears more merit as I thought it was silly and certainly folks weren't walking around with so much coin that 1300 mhl was easy breezy... Thank you. I'll take this into HC and we'll see what kind of work around we can use with this to much mhl floating around. Seems folks are bored.


My choice of words was probably the wrong one. 1300 mhl is not "lousy" when it comes to the time and effort it takes to acquire. But compared to the benefit it provides (cutting down the stamina cost of your favourite spell by -7), the 1300 cost is well worth it, as it does allow to cast 7-slot spells for just 1 stamina (less than a warrior). In fact it would be be silly not to spend that 1300 on at least your favourite spell and maybe a few others (not necessarily on every spell you can get your hands on). That's what I meant.

That said, we do have a cascading inflation problem in the game, and you can see that when people are willling to spend 10,000 mhl on a single SFAW bid (yes, 10,000 mhl so they can force blowjobs for a week). I have some comments to make on your post but since it would be going off-topic I'll create another thread so as not to derail this one.
Image
User avatar
Farvel
Predominate
Predominate
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:16 am

Re: Physical class change

Postby miyuka on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:48 pm

Cayenne, I understand. It's just that the basis of the combat system is really old and meant to be simple since this is an RP first, kind of place. IT's not like say DnD where it's got this super complex (if you wish it to be) combat system with all kinds of variables and what not to it. The fact that we even have what 3 different dice systems is already a large feat and jump for it as is. But anywho, I don't forsee doing too much more with the stamina outside of abilities/magic.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5112
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Physical class change

Postby Cayenne on Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:21 pm

miyuka wrote:Cayenne, I understand. It's just that the basis of the combat system is really old and meant to be simple since this is an RP first, kind of place. IT's not like say DnD where it's got this super complex (if you wish it to be) combat system with all kinds of variables and what not to it. The fact that we even have what 3 different dice systems is already a large feat and jump for it as is. But anywho, I don't forsee doing too much more with the stamina outside of abilities/magic.


Thank you for taking time to respond and consider this idea Miyuka~

Farvel wrote:I thought the topic was comparing the attack power vs. stamina costs of physical and magical attacks, and how to balance one against the other. I pointed out that the existence of focus enchantments and their considerable stamina reduction is a factor that must necessarily be accounted for in that comparison. I can't see how that observation is off-topic, TBH.


Most of the point was that it is difficult to compare them as things stand (At least in my current opinion/understanding). Placed on the same mechanical footing I felt it would be easier to move forward with balancing - and at the same time have further nuance to combat for physical classes that does fit in line with actual fighting.

Farvel wrote:My choice of words was probably the wrong one. 1300 mhl is not "lousy" when it comes to the time and effort it takes to acquire. But compared to the benefit it provides (cutting down the stamina cost of your favourite spell by -7), the 1300 cost is well worth it, as it does allow to cast 7-slot spells for just 1 stamina (less than a warrior). In fact it would be be silly not to spend that 1300 on at least your favourite spell and maybe a few others (not necessarily on every spell you can get your hands on). That's what I meant.

That said, we do have a cascading inflation problem in the game, and you can see that when people are willling to spend 10,000 mhl on a single SFAW bid (yes, 10,000 mhl so they can force blowjobs for a week). I have some comments to make on your post but since it would be going off-topic I'll create another thread so as not to derail this one.


I've said what I needed to say on the original topic, so I'll respond a little bit to this idea that the game's economy is broken. In this game, if you want to be level 100, you have a long, long road ahead of you, as experience is tied to your everyday roleplay, running of quests and submitting of content to the website. In a way this makes everything you do that benefits the game worth progression for your character.

On the flip side, we have money. In a way, this is another reward for people doing the jobs out there in the world to provide new and different roleplay for those who want to explore. Being an Wench in the inn gives people a face in the a name to a servant girl that they can easily dismiss once their food and drinks arrive, a lurid dangerous man behind the counter of the general store more than willing to help you try out some of those items you see in the sex and slave sections.

Unfortunately, mostly for those people - many force themselves to monologue, and not have enjoyable experiences as they try to grind out large sums of money. Many people who have gone down this route have burned out on it, and it's just a thing that happens - as they have a dream for that money (Maybe in like in Lark's case of just getting rich enough to afford to get plump).

This is not a fault of the system, it's a choice of the player. You can get a nice some of money with just a handful of hours a month - that will help your character progress and purchase the things you think will improve your play with them.

The fact that someone is willing to spend 10,000 mhls is less about the idea that people have too much money, but the willingness of someone to use some of the money that they worked hard for (Through events, levels, worklogs, and otherwise) to purchase the rights to an individual for a set amount of time. If your character would do that, who are you to say it's wrong? If you're doing that OOCly just to get time with that person - well that's something different.

If there's an idea to fix the system, I'm sure they're willing to entertain it in the appropriate thread.
User avatar
Cayenne
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:34 pm


Return to Weapons, Armor and Combat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest