Belariath

I don't understand how tending/etiquette will increase pay for an acrobat or an actor or a singer/bard. It goes back to the fact that I have to do something other than entertaining in order to make a decent living.

He can make money as an acrobat, just not as much as someone with a much more desirable job. Keep in mind what manner of world we are RPing in. There's not exactly a local circus around that is hiring people. The entertainment in the inn is usually either a bard singing for coin (though you can be hired at the inn for it) someone dancing on stage, or a whore/slut in your lap. If you're looking to be paid for your acrobatics, I would say you probably shouldn't expect to be paid the same amout as a store worker, or guard. At least you -can- be paid for it. Is it fair? Well...yeah not all jobs are created equal.

Alright how about this:

Performance (Artisan, Entertainer, bard)
Novice - Able to put on a simple performance(i.e sing a ditty, do a simple magic trick, etc.).
Apprentice - Able to put on longer and more difficult performances(i.e play a song, make something seem to disappear, etc.)
Journeyman - Able to perform complex tasks and perform with others(i.e Play in an orchestra, put on a show, etc.)
Expert - Able to perform and orchestrate a series of tasks(i.e perform a acrobatic routine, etc.)
Master -

Not complete, but at least gives a base for something that may be worth adding.

Albireo Echebbi wrote:Performance (Artisan, Entertainer, bard)
Novice - Able to put on a simple performance(i.e sing a ditty, do a simple magic trick, etc.).
Apprentice - Able to put on longer and more difficult performances(i.e play a song, make something seem to disappear, etc.)
Journeyman - Able to perform complex tasks and perform with others(i.e Play in an orchestra, put on a show, etc.)
Expert - Able to perform and orchestrate a series of tasks(i.e perform a acrobatic routine, etc.)
Master -

Apprentice- able to put on more difficult performances including the addition of props, instruments, and more complex jokes.

Journeyman - Able to perform as part of a group of up to four players, perform multi-roled mulit-act parts, and perform simple acrobatic routines, and compose short skits and musical numbers.

Expert- Able to perform with larger groups, perform and write complete plays and instrumental pieces with multiple characters.
Master- Able to perform in any group of any size, write complex plays and instrumental pieces, even for instruments not fully mastered themselves.

sweet deal

gwyneth{StWi} wrote:

Albireo Echebbi wrote:Performance (Artisan, Entertainer, bard)
Novice - Able to put on a simple performance(i.e sing a ditty, do a simple magic trick, etc.).
Apprentice - Able to put on longer and more difficult performances(i.e play a song, make something seem to disappear, etc.)
Journeyman - Able to perform complex tasks and perform with others(i.e Play in an orchestra, put on a show, etc.)
Expert - Able to perform and orchestrate a series of tasks(i.e perform a acrobatic routine, etc.)
Master -

Apprentice- able to put on more difficult performances including the addition of props, instruments, and more complex jokes.

Journeyman - Able to perform as part of a group of up to four players, perform multi-roled mulit-act parts, and perform simple acrobatic routines, and compose short skits and musical numbers.

Expert- Able to perform with larger groups, perform and write complete plays and instrumental pieces with multiple characters.
Master- Able to perform in any group of any size, write complex plays and instrumental pieces, even for instruments not fully mastered themselves.

Performance - Artisan, Bard, Entertainer

The novice level of this skill looks pretty good actually.

gwyn, your inclusions for the higher level ranks of this skill is actually pretty good.

Time for me to add my two coppers into the mix...

Apprentice - Possessing the ability to add more props and instruments to the performance, able to perform as part of a duo. Offer up more complex jokes, stories, and songs. Can write muscial pieces for two instruments.

Journeyman - The performer now has the ability to put on more of a stage show with more props, instruments, and up to four performers in addition to themselves. Can perform more complex acrobatic acts and compose short scenes and musical numbers for five instruments.

Expert - The performer now has the ability to put on more elaborate stage shows in groups numbering no more than ten performers (not including self), and write out complete plays and musical pieces for up to ten instruments.

Master - The performer can now create elaborate stage shows for many actors and performers, write complete plays with vivid detail, as well as compose musical pieces for any number of instruments (no matter if the performer can play them or not).

And there are my two coppers.

Navigation (Mage, Knight, Warlord, Hydromancer, Geomancer, Aeromancer, Monk, Priest, Cleric, Paladin, Monk, Thief, Ranger, Mage, Druid, Hierophant)

Kind of confused as to why a pyromancer would not be able to navigate their way from point A to point D safely and without getting lost. Doesn't really make any sense.

because Navigation in this sense is directly related to boats and water, and Fire Mages have a natural abhorrence of the element to keep them from learning it in depth. I'm sure some might want to play it differently, but the mechanics will essentially remain the same:

Novice - the player can find his way between two ports on a large lake.
Apprentice - Can navigate rivers and knows water maps enough to find a safe passage down them.
Journeyman - Can navigate a boat under most normal conditions even in a sea sized body of water.
Expert - this person now has the ability to navigate their vessel under adverse conditions like light fog or a cloudy night. May make short oceanic hops.
Master - May navigate a vessel in any condition or weather on any size body of water

I think the 'entertainer' class should be given the option to take the 'Scribe' ranked skill.

It's the only skill a Bard can get that an entertainer can't and, given the large similarities between the classes, I wouldn't see why a bard could do scribing and an Entertainer can't.

hear hear on the entertainers getting the scribe skill.
what's a good performance without the ability to articulate in writing.

Its a minor thing, but it does bother me. As rangers are traditionally viewed as pathfinders, reconnaissance, and skirmishers, should they not be able to read/draw maps? It just seems to me like it would be an important skill to have.

EDIT: Arguing for cartography, in other words.

Miss Magical wrote:I think the 'entertainer' class should be given the option to take the 'Scribe' ranked skill.

It's the only skill a Bard can get that an entertainer can't and, given the large similarities between the classes, I wouldn't see why a bard could do scribing and an Entertainer can't.

Hmm, i think I have seen this argument before. At the time I think the consensus was that the 'entertainer' was largely supposed to be a physical type thing; dancing, tumbling, etc. While bard focused more on music, lore, and writing.

Basically Bard was the 'learned' entertainer, while entertainer might be more physical or peasant stock. Also, in unranked skills you can learn 'reading/writing -common', scribe isn't even needed for being able to write things down, it is only needed for making it look pretty.

Hi all, im not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but here goes!

I have been thinking about the ranked skill, Horsemanship, and its unranked cousin, Horseback riding. I interpret Horsemanship as the ability to ride a mount into/for combat, fighting and such. I was wondering if additional classes can be included for this. For now, Horsemanship is only for Warlord, Knight, Paladin, Warrior. I wish to suggest that Rangers be allowed to take up this skill, as it might be so that they spend alot of time on their mounts, travelling in the woods, hunting and fighting on horseback...

Small question about Scribe. . .

It says that the character knows some calligraphy around the third rank or so.
I noticed that there's also a Calligraphy unranked skill as well. Is there any synergy between these skills?

Or if you've the unranked Calligraphy skill then your character can do the same thing?

I read the unranked ones are for roleplay effects only, but I would hazard a guess that Scribe/Calligraphy seem to be roleplay too. . .
Unlike the other ranked skills which seem to be for crafting. Scribe doesn't mean magical items such as texts and/or scrolls, yea?
I only ask for clarification before I choose to take either/or. (Though, I truly do plan on doing both as my character progresses.)

unranked skills aren't going to increase your pay.