Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

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Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:28 pm

Heya there, me again.

Okay, I wanted to know what is the current deal with them? Pound for pound for what I have read, they do not seem to have all that much going for them. It seems to be far more profitable and promising to just run with a magical class than go warlord. One loses the ability to cast and and all spells and gains the opportunity to have a keep and a possible Patron (or Matron as the case may be) to make sure you have access to siege engines and boats... I think. I may not have read that right, though.

What I would personally like to do is propose a potential set of skills and feats for the Warlord Class. Nothing too fancy, just things that would make sense for them. I was considering basing the effectiveness of said skills by the Warlord Class muliplier. Such as if they have Warlord x1, they get a +1 bonus, or if they have Warlord x4, then they would have a +4 bonus. Something like that which would not make things too far gone, but have it make sense for people that live by the sword (or spear, sometimes sandwich) to have.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby lyllamarie on Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:54 pm

This is the correct spot.

Warlords will be getting their own physical skills as soon as possible. Currently we're finished with basic physical classes and almost done with Paladins, then we have Warlords, Mist Raiders and whatever other physical class we're looking at.

The skills will be the magical classes counter part for physical classes.

Suggestions or ideas for this particular Class are welcome.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:42 pm

Righto.

Now that I have something definite in mind, I am going to lift something I was working on for the warrior-mage and bring it over here for perusal. I will post what I had written first and then go from there in turning it into an ability rather than an incantation.

Mythical Footwork
Level Required: 10
Class Required: Warrior-Mage

Description: Normally used in larger battles, this is an incantation that allows the warrior-mage to "gain the better ground" so to speak. By uttering these words in combat, the warrior-mage summons the wrath of the arcane to strength their muscles and sharpen their reflexes. Normally, this is enough to give them the first strike. Only able to be used once at the beginning of battle, that is usually all the warrior-mage needs.

MECHANICS: This spell gives the warrior-mage a boost to their initiative. The spell takes one turn, that being just before the combat begins. The player declares they are using the spell; the spell gives a bonus based on the amount of slots invested in the casting. The casting cost is five stamina + one stamina per slot.


Alright, so my main goal is to get a bonus to initiative for warlords and warrior-mages. Hand-to-hand combat is pretty much their bread and butter, so they would be somewhat more keen to battle than others. So instead of using a spell to activate this ability and calculate it, I was thinking of a bonus based on the warrior-mage and warrior classes' multiplier. The warlord, as far as I am concerned, would have a far greater bonus than the warrior-mage, mainly as the warlord doesn't rely on magic at all for their competency. I was thinking of the following:

Warlord = +5 initiative per Warlord level. (I think this would maximize at +30 or +35)
Warrior-Mage = +3 initiative per Warrior-Mage level. (This should end up being +18 or +21 at highest)
current characters:
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:35 pm

That's a rather huge bonus, isn't it? you already add in your level for init rolls.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:25 pm

I did not know you added levels for your initiative rolls. I do not really do a lot of the combat rolls at this time. In terms of the bonus, I am trying to show they would have a superior physical reaction time to "the unwashed masses." If those bonuses are too large in terms of scale, then they can be muted some. The warlord would still have a better bonus than the warrior-mage, however.

Current proposition:
Warlord = +5 initiative per Warlord level. (I think this would maximize at +30 or +35)
Warrior-Mage = +3 initiative per Warrior-Mage level. (This should end up being +18 or +21 at highest)

New proposition (in light of new information):
Warlord = +3 initiative per Warlord level. (I think this would maximize at +18 or +21)
Warrior-Mage = +1 initiative per Warrior-Mage level. (This should end up being +6 or +7 at highest)

Essentially, I am trying to show the Warlord as being a definite threat in terms of their speed to react. For people who go through their lives eschewing magic, they would need to train to match up to such things. And yes, I am basing this on the Warlord and Warrior-Mage multiplier. So you could only get the maximum bonus if you pretty much went Warlord or Warrior-Mage early.
current characters:
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:46 pm

I'm not really sure how being a warlord or a warrior mage equates to being any quicker in a battle situation than any other combat based person to be totally honest with you.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 pm

A warlord literally lives and dies by the sword. This is their life and their longing. The same thing for a warrior-mgae, but not as much. I sort of equate it to being a martial artist in the real world. For martial arts who dedicate themselves to actual combat situations (or a regular soldier, as another example), being quick to act and react may mean the difference between life and death.

At least, that is my logic behind such a bonus. It may not fly so much with the warrior-mage, based on what I have been working on for them magic wise. However, the warlord doesn't have the ability to snap their fingers and change a battle by blowing up an opponent. It is them, their steel (or wood if they are using a quarterstaff or a bow), and that's about it. Almost every other "combat based" person can lapse into using sorcery to save their skins. The warlord cannot and knows this. They have "cast off" such a crutch as waggling their fingers to make something sparkle.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:41 am

I understand the mentality of a warlord, I'm just saying being faster in a combat situation doesn't really scream warlord to me. I mean yeah, they lords of WAR, they are going to be good at battle, master of whatever weapon they are using, master commander of troops, but the better init thing just doesn't seem to convey that in my honest opinion. I honestly think there could be something much better than an init bonus here.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby L`aquera on Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Since they are masters of a battle, of war, I'd think more they would likely get a bonus to block an incoming hit and an ability to hit harder considering they would know just 'where' to hit to disable or kill an opponent. Thats just my one cent ;)
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:44 am

To L`aquera's point:

I was going to suggest bonuses to strike and dodge after going through this proposal. It would be along the same scale as what I was considering for the the initiative bonus. Though if the idea for an initiative bonus is not likely, I would surmise I would move onto that next for the Warlord class (primarily). Depending on what is managed to be dreamed up for the Warrior-Mage class, I may not try to work them both in the same thread.

So, assuming that the initiative bonus concept is unlikely, what would be an appropriate scale for a bonus to strike and a bonus to dodge for the Warlord class? I am going to safely assume that x5 bonus is out of the question. It would be interesting, yes, but having someone effectively thirty five levels higher at maximum in terms of hand to hand combat to someone else does seem somewhat excessive. I personally believe a x2 or x3 bonus would make sense. A x2 bonus (to the levels of Warlord the character has) would give a maximum bonus of +14 if someone went straight to Warlord, and with a x3 bonus, it would give the person a maximum bonus of +21. As per normal, the damage dealt by a Warlord would still cap at 50, regardless of the difference.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Mon Mar 19, 2012 3:59 pm

Yar, L! That's the kind of stuff that comes to mind when I think warlord.

I would rather you did a separate thread for warmage and warlord just for the sake of my own sanity and not getting things confused.

Now, to the number stuff! Are these bonus to the actual damage dealt or the attack modifier? X2 seems a bit excessive. If you're just going for a simple class based advantage for them then it shouldn't be such a massive thing. Check out Warrior adv/disadv on the class page for a better example.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:56 pm

as per Miyuka's statement, just posting this in here:

Advantage:

Melee Specialist
The warrior has trained in their chosen style to be the best fighter he or she can be, and has learned that the best defense is a good offense! Starting at Warrior x1, the warrior gets a +1 to ATK when making a Close Physical attack. This bonus increases to +2 at Warrior x3, +3 at Warrior x5, and +4 at Warrior x7. The warrior may choose, at the beginning of combat, to opt out of this bonus for the rest of the combat, and then no longer gains the DEF penalty from Reckless.


That does not seem to put them at much of an advantage. A pure Warrior by those listings would have only a +4 advantage in a "street fight" situation. For someone that specializes in up close in-fighting, to me it doesn't look like they've trained much. That's just my personal take on it. However, what could be done -based- on the Warrior bonus is that it would extend with Warlord levels. This bonus would also be added to the defence rolls.

Now then, I do know there is a disadvantage to the Warrior's ability:

Reckless
Caution is not a warrior's strong suit. Be it through heedless zeal, towering arrogance, or improper training, the warrior's defenses are not as advanced as one tempered and schooled rigorously in the finer points of war. For every +1 to CloPhyAtk gained through the Warrior Advantage, the warrior suffers a -1 to CloPhyDef. The warrior may choose, at the beginning of combat, to opt out of this penalty for the rest of the combat, but then no longer gains the ATK bonus from Melee Specialist.


The distinct advantage of the boost with the Warlord ability would be that it did not take away from the defensive ability of the individual. The Warlord ought be to the Warrior what the Heirophant I believe is to the Druid. The natural extension of the class.

No, I have not really thought about reworking the math on this yet. First I want to see if this concept meshes with what others are thinking. From there, I can freely work on the mechanics.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby Ylith on Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:29 pm

Concidering that a warlord is a master of battle and a skilled commander of troops, I would suggest a bonus to other fighters in a mass fight, that follow the warlord's orders. I am not talking a large bonus; but maybe a +1 or +2 extra mod to their dieroll. I believe we had this once, but no more; however the logic of it seems sound.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:41 pm

I like that idea myself Ylith, though I'd also like to see them get some personal bonus as well (since group combat doesn't happen a whole lot outside of SL's and events).

To mozenwrath: Keep in mind that advantage is just for being a warrior, once you calculate in your weapon as well as your abilities when using them (when they are released of course) you'll start to see a larger increase.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:58 pm

My look on the abilities tend to be independent of the weapons. I do that because at least 50% of the weapons used in the game can be used by anyone, and are subject to the same potential bonuses for enchanting. Crystal swords are removed from my thoughts as I don't believe that torians can become warlords. (Just checked now, and they can't.) Crystal swords being - from what little I have really looked up for being - the most damaging Class B weapon available.

Okay, so what I have right now is that Warriors have a bonus that goes from +1 to +4 to attack based on their Warrior level, and they get a penalty of the same amount whenever they use that bonus.

Something I just read through now is that the Knight gets a similar defensive bonus to the Warlord's offensive bonus, as long as certain conditions are met:

Honor's Aegis
Where some might focus on the perfect attack, the knight's rigid training focuses around defense. They become an bulwark for those they serve, defending both honor and person. To this end they are better equipped than the common person. At Knight x1, and for every two times Knight is taken thereafter, the knight gets a +1 bonus to their Close Physical Defense rolls. (so +2 at Knight x3, +3 at Knight x5, and +4 at Knight x7) Furthermore, a knight is given a Long Sword, Shield, and Horse at character creation to represent their previous service. However, if ever a knight is found to be lacking a sworn Purpose or Liege (see below), they will not benefit from the defense bonus granted by Honor's Aegis.


First thought, based on that, would be to allow for the Warlord to get a similar bonus of +1 to +4 to attack, but also get a bonus of +1 to +4 on their defense. I like the idea of this stacking with the Warrior bonus and the Knight Bonus. Now, if I am not mistaken, only the Warrior and the Knight can use Class C and Class D weapons of all kinds, right? Rangers only get access to Class C bows.

And looking into the Ranger Class...

Hunter's Eye
Whether from long hours of practice in the forests of Nanthalion, or a simple natural ability, ranged weaponry bends itself easily to the will of the Ranger. Bows, hurled knives, even slings are easily mastered by this class, giving rise to the reputation of the Ranger as a fierce ranged combatant. This manifests as a bonus to all ranged physical attack dice rolls, dependent on the number of times Ranger has been taken - +1 at Ranger x1, +2 at Ranger x3, +3 at Ranger x 5, +4 at Ranger x7. This ability is not automatic and must be stated at the beginning of combat. Should the ranger choose to use Hunter's Eye, then the disadvantage, Mercy's hesitation will also be in affect.


- along with -

Mercy's Hesitation
Rangers are not warriors by trade. While they might find it easy enough to put an arrow in a man's chest at fifty paces, at two, or three paces, with a dagger in their hand and the whites of his eyes shining, it's an entirely different story. A Ranger is at a disadvantage because of this unfamiliarity, this too-close-for-comfort type of fighting, so a wise Ranger keeps his distance. Mechanically, this manifests as a penalty to any close physical attack, dependent on the number of times Ranger has been taken. -1 at Ranger x1, -2 at Ranger x3, -3 at Ranger x 5, -4 at Ranger x7. This disadvantage is only active should the ranger use the Hunter's eye advantage and lasts until the end of combat.


- leave me scratching my head to figure out a good answer for this. At this rate, I would be looking at revisions for the Warrior, the Knight, Ranger, and the Warlord. Alright, for now how about this to begin with:

Taking the Warlord class allows the character to add +1 to any physical bonuses they had from being a Ranger, a Knight, or a Warrior. This means if a Ranger had a +3 bonus to shoot someone with a bow, this would now become a +4 bonus.

===

In terms of Ylith's idea, one could use a "broad scale" bonus structure for a group melee as the Ranger, Warrior, and Knight have. Warlord x1 and x2 = +1 bonus, Warlord x3 and x4 would get a +2 bonus, and Warlord x5 and x6 would get a +3 bonus. Since this would not show up all that often, a bonus of that level would not be too excessive.

===

And even though I am getting way ahead of myself here, I thought of something sort of important: Null Magica. Does this have to remain purely a negative?

Null Magica
Having spent all of their time and energies on battles and strategic planning, they have not the time to keep up in magical studies. Their time is spent reading and learning from past war heroes and studying their strategies. As a result, they do not pride themselves in learning magic and what spells they once knew, becomes lost due to not keeping up with the practice required. Upon taking the class of Warlord, they must seek out a Unigo representative or Sorcerers Sanctuary to have their spells inventory completely wiped clean. A Warlord may not possess any spells, but they may have items enchanted with spells.


I mean, for someone who now completely abstains from casting of magic, could they not gain a bonus against spells used against them?
current characters:
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