Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:42 pm

yes, they could gain a bonus against spells used on them.

Also what are you left scratching your head trying to figure out?
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:30 pm

What I was left scratching my head at was the amount of the bonus the physical classes currently get. All of them seem to have a similar setup where they achieve a "step-up" every other Class level. (levels 1, 3, 5, and 7 specifically). Two of the physical classes take a hit to the same amount if they try to use that bonus (Warrior, Ranger), and the third one doesn't get said bonus at all unless they have an in-game allegiance to explain it (Knight.) To me it doesn't seem like much "bang for your buck." However, that's something I'd have to go and look into in another thread and another day.

I will have to keep doing research to figure out an appropriate physical bonus for the Warlord based on what is currently there. I am sure there's a solution out there I will like that'll mesh with the current system.

***

Now, from what I understand you can have Warlord x1 to Warlord x6. I was thinking originally 5% per Warlord level automatic magical defense. That would give a grand total of 30% to all dice rolls concerning magic being used on the Warlord. Though I have a feeling that would be considered excessive. So my next thought was a slightly more modest 3% per Warlord level bonus to !clomagdef and !ranmagdef rolls.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:00 pm

warlord X5 actually.

The 30% would be too much. Keep in mind the class stuff is before any abilities or spells or enchantments are used hence why they may not really seem like much on their own. I would honestly say a 1% per warlord level would be more in order, so at max 5%.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:20 pm

That does not seem to give them much at all, if anything. The only characters that would see any sort of gain would need to have 100+ on their skills already. Therein lay my problem with any adjustments I have tried to suggest so far: putting dampeners on them seems to make the bonus almost insignificant. I compare this to magical classes though, who seem to be able to throw on a bunch of protections instantaneously. Yes, I do understand it is a temporary bonus for said magical classes, as it is something they need to actively once they choose to enter combat.

Oh yes, and thanks for letting me know it is only five possible levels of Warlord. That will help for all further ideas I have in my head here. I honestly didn't know. Though, it does seem a little strange to me that you "lose" a multiplier when you take your advanced class. (I have no characters with multiple classes, so I've never had to take a look into all this before.)

Since you are stating "before any abilities, spells, or enchantments" are used, would you happen to know off hand which would be the most likely for any Warlord to use in terms of abilities or enchantments? Spells would be improbable as that would mean spells the Warlord would have to have cast on them. In that regard, I do not recall any defensive magics that can be cast directly onto another individual. When going through a few of the different spheres, I did not see any spells that could be used as a "group enhancement" for defensive abilities either. All of them seemed to be focused on the caster of the spell. The enchantments I believe automatically cap at +15 for attack or defense on items.

Thirty percent you feel was far too high as a maximum. (And that was based on a 5% increase, assuming six levels. Now, I know that would be a 6% increase per level, with five levels to work through.) I feel that five percent is far too low. Mayhaps either ten percent (which would work under 2% intervals) or fifteen percent (which would work under 3% intervals). Either one of those I could see working.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:05 am

err, pardon my previous post. I dunno what the heck I was comparing my numbers to but they came out wrong. try 5% per warlord level with a max of 25% at X5. You were going in the right direction.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:02 pm

Alright then. So shall I rubber stamp that as a defensive magical bonus that works under a 5% increment, capping off at 25%? This reflects the Null Magica hindrance directly, much like the basic physical classes who have a bonus to strike and a penalty that matches it. As it is, I have not seen any spells that allow someone to give a Warlord (or anyone else for that matter) additional magical protection. If such were to come about, you could easily extend this defensive bonus to people trying to cast on the Warlord anything that was not a healing spell. So someone could try to put a magical force field to -aid- the Warlord and the spell could still cancel out.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:45 pm

I'm not exactly sure what you are proposing
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby mozenwrathe on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:32 pm

What I am proposing is the following:

Warlords, upon becoming warlords, have all magic stripped from them. This is in the rules already. What I am stating is that the warlord should start gaining a form of magical immunity. Not a complete immunity, but magical effects would be dampened on them. This bonus would effect specifically any roll that uses !clomagatk and !ranmagatk on the warlord. When rolling their defense, the warlord would get that bonus. The bonus would be five percent per warlord level.

Warlord x1 = 5%
Warlord x2 = 10%
Warlord x3 = 15%
Warlord x4 = 20%
Warlord x5 = 25%

As there are no spells I could find that allow you to put a magical defense over another person, I did not see how this bonus could truly be magnified by outside sources. (As in, someone else making the Warlord's magical defenses stronger.) As stated, this would not be a bonus to any of their physical skills, and the dampening effect would not effect damage taken from any spell.
current characters:
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Dasan (Sheykan, druid, real estate specialist)
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:22 pm

ohhhhh, well even if there were sources that could further enhance magical defense on others I would still leave the bonus as is. It mirrors (percent wise) what elemental mages get. The main differences being, however, is that for warlord it would be against -all- magics, not just one elemental type. Though I do like this particular benefit, I'm still pondering if it is fully fitting for warlord.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby Almondus on Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:35 pm

I agree with yuka on this. I do have something to add however:

Not all that long ago some thought was put into developing another type of armor that intrnsicly would blunt the impat oc spells. I would think that warlords would benifit more by having acess to the hevier versions of that armor. It may take some time to impliment, but I would be surprised if similar things to what you are after arn't being looked at by other means.

Again, these things take time. Thank you for your idea and keep them comming!
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby Famfrit on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:38 pm

1) Be wary of basing the balance of a Warlord's bonus around an Elemental Mage. Elemental Mages have access to a lot more tricks than a Warlord, and they still have access to their Mage spells which include magical and physical defenses. So while 30% might seem much for a character that can pull +30 magic defense and +15 agility out of their ass and has ways to incapacitate their opponent... it isn't actually as much for a character who can't do any of that--they can't even cast Graceful Leap.

2) Magic defenses make sense for a class that purposefully severs itself from magic completely. Moreover, in a world that's as magic-heavy as Belariath (Everyone casts some spells) having one class completely forgo magic is rich with flavor. Let's face it... the current rp on Null Magicka is incredibly weak... anyone can lead troops now. Why are Warlords required to strip themselves of magic? How does that relate to getting cheaper real estate? Magic defense explains this question.

3) A bonus to other combatants would be awesome in a game where there's multiple combatants. There's a reason why goblins don't have their old Gang Warfare ability any more--giving Warlords anything like this would be an incredibly minor ability at best, unless it affected quest dice.

Now, if warlords had a straight bonus/penalty they could apply to others in quest dice... now you're looking at a niche ability no one has that fits the class. Right now... no one affects quest dice--which is where multiple combat actually happens.
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Re: Warlords... (Hope this is in the right spot)

Postby miyuka on Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:22 pm

All good points that have already been taken into consideration. Thanks muchly for the input.
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