Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Questions and suggestions for additions or changes to these topics

Moderators: Stormbringer, Ehlanna

Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Rei-Kai on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:34 am

Honestly? Yeah I think Warrior-Mage needs a replacement. Rune Knight isn't much different, I'll say. Maybe just more fleshed out (if you take anything I put here as being a better idea anyway). I am going to try and come up with both Crew Skills and Spells designed for Rune Knight as well and place them here so I can keep it in one nice neat package. Anyway, here we go. Again, don't be surprised by similarities with WaM.

Rune Knight

Allowable Races: Drak Sen (metallic), Drak Sen (earthly), Cat Person, Centaur, Chirot, Dark Elf, High Elf, High Human, Merfolk, Minotaur, Ogre, Sithian, Sylvan Elves, The Tribe, Torian, Troll, Wolven, Vulpine

Qualifying Classes: Must possess Dual-Class status; Must combine one magic class (Mage, Shaman, or Druid) with either Knight, Ranger or Warrior.

Type of Class: Advanced Physical&Magical

Spell Spheres Allowed: Common, Racial and Arcana

Armor: A, B, C (Race restrictions apply)

Weapons: A, B, C (Race restrictions apply)

Class Bonus Stats:
Str+4, Int+4, Agi+4, Res+4, Sta+0, Spl+0, Life+2

Mindset: Keepers of magic and wielders of the blade, a Rune Knight hones his skill with a weapon as much as he sharpens his mind to unleash spells of great power, and combines these two aspects to create synergy. In this world, the idea that battle can only be won with sword or sorcery as separate means of engaging in conflict is a lie. To the Rune Knight, knowledge and strength are the same, and the line separating ones physical abilities and mystical prowess is blurred. For the Rune Knight, striking a person with a sword or axe is no different than hitting them with a spell of fire or frost. It's all in the execution.

Concept: A Path chosen by few and mastered by even less, the journey of a Rune Knight is long and, in some ways, endless as they seek to better themselves in both sword and sorcery. As such, they will never be able to match a warrior or mage of equal experience as themselves, for the Rune Knight has divided its time between the study of both of these aspects, while the Warrior and Mage have dedicated themselves solely to their craft. Because of this, a Rune Knight may spend far greater time reaching heights of power others achieve more easily. However, it is also because of their nature that the Rune Knight can demonstrate more versatility in combat than nearly any other. The mountain they must climb is steeper than any other, but it can be said to be more rewarding than any other.

Advantage(s):

Combat Readiness
The Rune Knight is one who is always ready for battle and has bound their armor and weapons to their very beings. This allows the Rune Knight to summon their equipment to them from any location, making it almost appear as if they are 'transforming' from their normal garb into an armored warrior. Because of this, the Rune Knight has a chance to perform a free action, regardless of whether or not he has won the Init roll. However, this action cannot be used offensively as it is only capable of either activating any enchanments upon the wearers armor (ie; stat boons) or the casting of a defensive spell (ie Magical Armor). To which casting a defensive spell still costs Stamina going into battle.
Mechanics: It's a simple 1d10 roll. Even number allows the action. Odd number and the opportunity is failed.

Mithril Magic
Due to the Rune Knight's nature and the mystical properties of the ore itself, Mithril is a favorite material amongst not only the magical community, but to Rune Knight's as well. Unlike other materials, mithril does not restrict access to their spellcasting. On the contrary, it is even used as a conduit or medium for their powers. As such, spells can be channeled through a blade or the tip of a spear, so long as it is made of Mithril.

Disadvantage(s):

Jack-of-all-Trades, Master of None
Due to the dual nature of the Rune Knight's training, they can never achieve absolute mastery of magic nor reach the uppermost skill and knowledge of weapons and armor. They can become more armored than any Mage, but cannot compete with a Warrior or Knight's heavy plated figures. And while they wield magic beyond that of the blade-wielding armies, pure sorcerers and masters of nature and the arcane will always dabble in secrets and mystical knowledge beyond the Rune Knight's means.

Rule: Even advancing to Rune Knightx5, spells in the allowed spheres are restricted passed Rank 3 (ie Magex3 spells). Knowledge of spells they are capable of accessing is twice that of a pure magic user. For example, a Magex2 can use up to Rank 2 Arcana spells. However a Rune Knightx1 advanced from a Mage can only use Rank 1 Arcana spells. It can be interpreted as Base Magic class + Advanced class divided by 2 (Rune Knightx5 + Mage = 6, 6/2 = 3).

Tipping the Scales
Because the Rune Knight has put thought to action and trains themselves to combine both aspects of combat, they are somewhat restrained by their own methods. As such, they constantly measure themselves and seek to maintain an internal balance between their physical and magical prowess. Focusing too much on the sword or pushing towards enhancing their spells will cause them to lose focus and become unsure of themselves, restricting their actions in combat and diminishing their overall potential.

Mechanics: If the players combined Physical or Magical stats (Str&Agi or Int&Res) are 25 points higher/lower than the other set, all attack and def rolls are reduced to 50% efficacy. Combat Readiness is also disabled, forcing the Rune Knight to constantly keep their equipment on them at all times.

Rune Sphere

The Rune Sphere is the powers derived by the Rune Knight Advanced Class, those that combine their physical prowess with the mystical energies of the world around them. Tired of the constraints of specified magical schools and the limitations of the physical body, these individuals sought to combine the two distinct disciplines into a unique melding of mind and body, sword and sorcery. The purpose was to create a Balance, to create a middle ground, a meeting point where the strength of ones arm was indistinguishable from the insight of the mind. Only Rune Knights have learned and striven towards the melding of magic and might, the balancing of powers and the understanding that comes with seeking knowledge from more than one source.

Though they may never have the same capacity for spell casting as a pure mage, the Rune Knight is no less powerful in combat. Below are the Spells uniquely woven by Rune Knights over the course of many ages, with the concept of adaptation against many foes. and utilizing their weapons, armor and magic as a single force.

Battle Spells

Rune Armor:
Level required: 20
Class Required: Rune Knight
Description: Rune Knight x3, Magical Armor (7), Physical Armor (7)

Utilizing this spell requires a bit of concentration to focus. It creates a series of archaic runes that form about the caster and adhere to the users armor and body, augmenting the persons physical and magical protection equally. Rune Knights designed this spell to replace other more tedious and time consuming spells, and while other defensive spells cannot be combined with this one, it suits the Rune Knights purposes. However, because this spell guards against both such forces, it drains more of the Rune Knight's energy to cast it. Yet it is still a preferable tradeoff, for even a moments time wasted in battle can mean life or death.

Mechanics: Increases Physical and Magical defenses by +1 for every slot in the spell up to a maximum of 15 slots with a cost of 2Sta per point added. Does not stack with other defensive spells (ie; Physical/Magical Armor). Spell lasts until canceled, caster is defeated, or until caster's stamina drops below 10 points. Spell drains 1Sta per round for every 5 slots in the spell, maximum 3Sta per round to sustain the spell.

Earthly Attunement:
Level required: 15
Class required: Rune Knight

Description: Rune Knight x2, Hurl Rock (5)

Chanting in the old tongue the Rune Knight creates a series of runes symbolizing the power and strength of earth and stone. The runes are then infused into the casters weapon, which calls up which calls up soil, sand, rock and stone from the ground around him to form into a jagged coating around the Rune Knight's weapon, improving its strength and granting it the elemental property of earth. This spell was designed specifically by the Rune Knight to be used in battle against Aeromancers, using the opposing elemental force to increase the effectiveness of their attacks against those who command lightning and the wind.

Mechanics: Takes one round to cast. Adds +1dmg for every 3 slots in the spell when cast. Effect lasts for 1d# rounds (# = slots used in the spell). Physical attacks become Close/Ranged Magical Attacks while spell is active (respectively, based on Weapon applied to). When used in combat against an Air Mage, increases attack chance by 5% for every time the opponent has taken the Air Mage class. (IE: Opponent is Air Magex2. Rune Knight rolls !cd Str Int +spell @110% vs defenders roll !cd Res Str +def)

Class Skills
The Rune Knight is unique in that combines the use of their weapons with the casting of spells, in some cases eliminating the need for chanting or hand motions in order to cast certain spells. However, only Mithril tools or special items (like IoP's) can be used as a conduit for their spells. Regular weapons and armor will not allow magic to pass through them. So it is in the Rune Knight's best interest to invest in Mithril.

(these will come later)
Image
User avatar
Rei-Kai
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Axios on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:41 am

Class Bonus Stats:
Str+5, Int+5, Agi+5, Res+5, Sta+0, Spl+2, Life+2


If you look at all the Advanced Classes - they've got 18 points spread out.
You've got 24 total.
User avatar
Axios
Novice
Novice
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby miyuka on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:18 am

wait...what? a replacement? Not like some changes or a new class but a replacement? I find this to be very odd. I do like the name though. Combat readiness is pretty interesting, might be too much though. I do like that there is a roll involved, giving it a chance to happen.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Rei-Kai on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:59 am

Axios wrote:If you look at all the Advanced Classes - they've got 18 points spread out.
You've got 24 total.


Well the WaM point distribution was; Str6, Int6, Agi4, Res 4, Sta0, Spl0, Life3.
I barely changed the numbers. Also spell slots are 1 for 1, like Stamina. So it's 23. Plus, other Adv classes have their own Spell Spheres. Warrior-Mage and (for now) Rune Knight don't. It was also the point that other classes aren't limited on their point distribution. You can have an Air Mage with like 3 str and 120Int. Warrior-Mage had to keep the main four (Str, Int, Res, Agi) within 10 points of each other or face penalties. Which used to be all stats reduced to 1/2 until fixed. Meaning you had to level up and fix your stats. Wasn't any fun.

For Rune Knight I gave them a bit more flexibility with stats and the Disadvantage, Tipping the Scales, can go into effect from magic or the use of enchantments. So, if a Rune Knight had like +15Int in enchants and +10 Res enchant, that's over the 25 mark which would effectively reduce their combat ability. Can even be caused by some spells that increase Agi too. And I believe there's a spell that puts or trades a persons stat temporarily with one of their own or shifts points from one to another, which can work against a Rune Knight or WaM.

Also I think the reason for WaM having 23 point distribution was because they didn't get access to D class weapons/armor, can't use shields and can't use 2h weapons (except bows). Also couldn't wear any metal armor that wasn't Mithril. So, basically, WaM got fisted pretty bad. Kinda why I wanted to, ya know, Replace it.

So giving that thought, could prolly reduce the main four stats by 1 each so it's Str4, Int4, Agi4, Res4, Sta0, Spl2, Life2. That'd put it in the same ballpark as the other Adv classes. Or just drop the Spl2 back to 0, which would prolly be best.

miyuka wrote:wait...what? a replacement? Not like some changes or a new class but a replacement? I find this to be very odd. I do like the name though. Combat readiness is pretty interesting, might be too much though. I do like that there is a roll involved, giving it a chance to happen.


Well, given how...shafted WaM is (explained above), I felt a complete redo was in order. It's almost exactly the same, but with just a new name and a bit more fleshed out on the idea. As for "Combat Readiness", the WaM equivalent was just a +10 to Init roll (not very helpful really). With this it helps just a bit more with prepping the gear enchants, if winning that roll. Of course, if you get Permanent Stat enchantments, you don't really need Combat Readiness for anything (unless you just wanted to pull a "Magical Girl" transformation. :P)
Image
User avatar
Rei-Kai
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Ishtori on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:08 pm

The general idea is good though I think there is a few things I'd like to point out.

You have 2 advantages that apply to combat and the current systems used is one for combat one for RP (though combat advantages and disadvantages also turn into RP but whatever).

I don't really like the magic restriction put on WaM, in fact I don't belive there is even a need to put one. If you think about it a WaM should be able to get all mage spells though it will never get the x7 mage equivalent ones because of the physical class you have to put in there to quallify for WaM. Not having the full specialisation should be enough in my opinion.

The bigger problem of WaM is that they have to divide their points through all the stats and while that would be in the spirit of what they are, it makes them really gimped for combat at lower levels and while having chances at high, they are usually still weaker than anything they come across. Unfortunatly I just can't think of a way to solve this problem without making a small adjustment to the dice system itself. Frankly I've had a way to fix the dice system for some time now, it's really simple but no one likes changes so I didn't bothered to submit it. Anyway, it would be good to find a way to give the WaM a little bit of leeway with the stats which are a never ending problem.

That's it for me, I think the idea is cool no matter what name we give to the class.

PS: Everyone likes magical girl transformation!
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
Ishtori
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:51 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Rei-Kai on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:02 am

Well that's what I mean. WaM is so trampled over in terms of abilities that the only reason to even pick it is because of the Idea or Mindset behind it. Seductress makes you incapable of love. Fire Mage turns you into an aggressive, easily angered sociopath (from my experience :P). Hierophant makes you very...very in love with nature. And so on and so forth. Warrior-Mage was the only "free thinker" of sorts out of all the Adv classes. But they're restricted to Magex1 spells, unless you did something like Mage/Warrior and advanced to Mage/Warrior-Mage and then picked Mage over Warrior-Mage at every increment. Which would only put you at Magex5/Warrior-Mage anyway.

The whole idea of continuing to take the Adv class is because of Spells and Class Skills. But since WaM only has like 3 spells to its name, none of which are all that effective, it really puts them out as the lame-dog of the bunch. Which is, again, why I wanted to create something based on the concept of the Warrior-Mage, but make it more along the lines of competing with other classes, without breaking the game.

Already changed the proposed stat distribution above. That should help. And I'd still like to add a spell sphere all its own. It's like what I had been proposing for WaM before, but am kinda refurbishing in and going over the old ideas. Even just something like 10 or so spells specific to Rune Knight would make the class worthwhile. And, of course, I wanted to keep the name of the sphere the Runic Sphere.

Oh and as for the 2nd "advantage" on Rune Knight, Mithril Magic, it's...really not anything all that different from what WaM had before. All I did was vocalize the rule about Gauntlets. WaM couldn't cast unless they were mithril. It just took that and expanded it a bit. It basically just allows spellcasting with mtirhil armor. Spells can be anything from Battle, to oob and Anywhere. Not all spells are combat based.
Image
User avatar
Rei-Kai
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Ishtori on Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:55 am

Ok, about the mithril magic. it might have not been your intent but the way you left it is being interpreted by me as this. You don't need a free hand to cast so long as that hand has a mithril item. So you can have a shield in one hand, a mithril sword in the other and you can cast spells despite no having a hand free cause the mithril sword will allow you in conjunction with the mithril magic abillity. This would actually turn it into a combat abillity though if you ask me, having both hands ocupied and not being able to cast seams kinda dumb. Nothing stops a player from, sticking the weapon in the ground, cast and get the weapon again, or simply remove one hand from a two handed weapon to cast and then go back to holding it in two hands. The whole point on needing a free hand to cast is almost completly mute except to say that if someone tied your hands behind your back you'll not be able to cast.
"The heavens burned
The stars cried out
And under the ashes of infinity
Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last."
Ishtori
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:51 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby miyuka on Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:06 pm

I've told you in the past and I've told you again. I'd rather see unique spells for WaM's rather than giving them access to all the Arcana spells...which wouldn't make sense for them to even have if they are supposed to be a balance between warrior and mage. Having their own sphere? I don't really care one way or the other if they have their own sphere so long as they have their own spells. That's more or less a database thing. Maybe some buffs to their weapons and armour type spells. There are good ideas floating around here and there over the years for Warrior mages and some have their own ideas of how they should and shouldn't be but here in belariath, this is how a warrior mage is. I'll definetly make sure to point to this thread when WaM comes up for review.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Rei-Kai on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:00 am

Ok, about the mithril magic. it might have not been your intent but the way you left it is being interpreted by me as this. You don't need a free hand to cast so long as that hand has a mithril item. So you can have a shield in one hand, a mithril sword in the other and you can cast spells despite no having a hand free cause the mithril sword will allow you in conjunction with the mithril magic abillity. This would actually turn it into a combat abillity though if you ask me, having both hands ocupied and not being able to cast seams kinda dumb. Nothing stops a player from, sticking the weapon in the ground, cast and get the weapon again, or simply remove one hand from a two handed weapon to cast and then go back to holding it in two hands. The whole point on needing a free hand to cast is almost completly mute except to say that if someone tied your hands behind your back you'll not be able to cast.


However, it's not combining the Atk of the Weapon with the Spell. It is in effect using the Mithril weapon/tool as a Medium for the Spell instead of an incantation of hand movement. The rules concerning spellcasting while holding weapons is ambiguous at best and have at times been misunderstood. True you could just say "I put my sword down for a moment to cast", but there are people who'd argue that'd be a separate action and you'd have to spend a round of setting it down before casting. As dumb as that sounds, there are those who'd argue that way.

You may see the ability as essentially useless if you just think of some means to avoid holding gear to cast spells while in combat. However it is meant to be an Anywhere type of ability and will hopefully play a primary role in the Rune Knight's way of combat. Since the plan is to design spells that require to use of Weapons for spells unique to the Rune Knight. If you wanted another reason, it also creates a more unique Role Play for the Rune Knight. Is it cooler to just form a bolt of flame from your hand or forming it at the tip of your sword and shooting it like a cannon? Shards of ice flying from your fingertips or swirling around the end of your speed and being hurled with a thrust?

ive told you in the past and I've told you again. I'd rather see unique spells for WaM's rather than giving them access to all the Arcana spells...which wouldn't make sense for them to even have if they are supposed to be a balance between warrior and mage. Having their own sphere? I don't really care one way or the other if they have their own sphere so long as they have their own spells. That's more or less a database thing. Maybe some buffs to their weapons and armour type spells. There are good ideas floating around here and there over the years for Warrior mages and some have their own ideas of how they should and shouldn't be but here in belariath, this is how a warrior mage is. I'll definetly make sure to point to this thread when WaM comes up for review.


Unfortunately, as you may yet recall, any time I have attempted to offer up new such spells or a sphere to the classes, they have been entirely shot down by the powers that be. And not just for the Warrior-Mage class, but pretty much anything in general. Either it was "too powerful" or "not neat enough" or even "no point to adding it". I came up with a spell called "Dissolving Goo" for the purpose of RP as an Arcana spell that would summon a gelatenous creature that specifically dissolves a persons clothes over a period of time. It would be quite fun to use IC and would promote sales for the clothing shops.

On another note though, I should ask; What's easier, writing new spells in the hopes they will be accepted at some undisclosed time or being given access to spells that already exist in the database?

If Rune Knight could have their own Sphere or list of abilities within Arcana Sphere, then that would be fine and the need for access up to Magex3 spells would not be needed. However, as it currently stands with the stagnation of development in the game as a whole, the probability of getting new spells added specifically for Rune Knight or Warrior-Mage is a minor note on the bottom of a list of things the Dev Staff is backlogged on.

It's understandable that everyone has things they need to do and RL comes first. But I can say for certain, that those of us playing as Warrior-Mages are looking for a more immediate benefit for a class that has nothing but Negatives on it. Access to Magex3 spells is not a game breaker and fits with the class aesthetic as it stands. They do train Magic and Weapons equally. That doesn't mean they stop learning spells after the most basic level. It just means they won't ever attain the same level of knowledge as pure spellcasters.

As it stands right now, every Elemental Mage has access to Magex1 spells Plus their own spell spheres. WaM has Magex1 and I think maybe 3 WaM spells. Lemme see what they are again.

Quick Foot:
Level required: 15
Class required: Warrior-Mage

Casting method: ranmagatk
Defending method: ranmagdef

Description: Warrior Mage X2:
Class Restriction: Warrior Mage:


The Warrior Mage tends to have a foot in both worlds, both in magical abilities and in his hold over a weapon. Yet at times a smart opponent would know enough to stay out of the WaMs range and finally the Warrior Mage may have found a way to close that distance. Soft incantation is set free. The sudden bound of the WaM and his electric leap towards his opponent bring him in for a quick spell or a damaging blow that may stun the victim at just how quick the WaM was upon him.


:MECHANICS: A roll of !ranmagatk vs. !ranmagdef is required to actually see if the Mage can use his power to suddenly streak towards his opponent, catching him off his guard. Stamina costs are calculated as normal, but a failing roll will wind the WaM and result in an additional 5 stamina cost. If successful, the WaM may then add a +5 to his agility that will last 1 round per every three slots put into this spell, but must expend 1 stamina per round to keep the effect active.

Rock the Boat:
Level required: 10
Class required: Warrior-Mage

Casting method: ranmagatk
Defending method: ranmagdef

Description: Warrior Mage X1:
Class Restriction: Warrior Mage:


Just because you wield a sword, doesn't mean you are attuned to just the art of slicing and dicing. They can size up an enemy quickly and decide just how they may move to what reaction he may gain. Yet we are crafty as well and at times, throwing one off balance is where the skill may seem to most lay. Sizing up an enemy, the Caster lets free a rather whispered, quiet spell, hand flinging out to send a rush of air at his enemies most weakest point, hoping to send them teetering off balance and in line for their next swing or spell.


:MECHANICS: A typical !ranmagatk vs. !ranmagdef. If the victim fails, the rush of air 'knocks' them off balance, giving the Caster an edge to attack. +1 for every 3 slots put into the spell. No real damage is done, but the damage of course comes in the next round when the Caster suddenly comes at one with a surprising blow. This is an instant spell and the gained bonus to attack only lasts one round. This costs 1 point of stam per slot put into this spell and will stack with other attack bonuses. Used for both physical and magical attacks.


I was wrong. It was two spells. Two. With Quick Foot just being a variation of a preexisting spell that just straight up increased Agi by +1 for ever 3 slots in the spell cast and lasted a number of rounds equal to a !ranmagatk. Quick Foot is more complex with penalties for a fail. "Rock the Boat" at best gives a +5 to attack, but only on the 2nd round, and the "knocking off balance" doesn't prevent the target from attacking nor does it diminish their offensive or defensive abilities. As such the idea of 'putting them off balance' is completely mooted by the fact it doesn't in itself affect the opponent. Meaning the WaM just wasted 15 stamina on a temporary attack chance. You'd have better luck with Harden Arrow.

Put it like this. Get the Elven Warbow, that's +5atk. Enchant it with +5atk. You now have +10. You buy Mithril Tipped Arrows, that's an extra +1. Now enchant those with +5 attack. Put the two together, you now have +16 to attack. Harden Arrow will do extra dmg if it hits. This combination has a greater attack chance than an enchanted Crystal Sword. And I remember when Harden Arrow used to add an atk boon to the attack roll instead of a dmg boon. I can understand changing the spell because, if you combined a +15atk from harden Arrow with the above combination, you'd have the highest attack roll in the game at +31atk.

I do apologize if it sounds like I'm griping, but...I am griping a bit. And I believe I have more than enough reason to do so. That doesn't mean I won't stop trying to flesh out the Rune Knight class and pump out some nifty spells for it. I just don't want to get all this out there and have the idea rejected or be said "It's not important right now" because something entirely different is being worked on or under review. There are people who want to contribute to the game and put effort into it. But when we see ideas get rejected or people belittled for suggesting things, it makes them not want to participate. I do not name names nor am I saying such is being done intentionally.

However, with the current state of affairs, everyone is on edge and will quickly become defensive. My only intention here is to provide an Alternative for the Warrior-Mage class for those of us who are weary of the constant incomplete state of the class and lack of forward momentum. I hope to have spells up in the near future for thoughts and criticism and will look forward to further input and hopefully more people will show interest and become involved.
Image
User avatar
Rei-Kai
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby miyuka on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:44 am

So you want WaM's to have heat metal, Shimmering armour and Mirror image?

Where are you going with the elven warbow thing?

Also keep in mind, that firstly dev may be slow but it ain't stagnant. Check the news from the admin section for updates. Secondly, not every idea that gets brought up is going to be accepted. That would be like madness. Yes you may have had your ideas rejected, it happens. It doesn't mean we reject everything. And if you think Dev does then that's your own problem.

That being said if this is supposed to be an alternative to Wam, then the title of your thread is misleading, which is why I was so boggled by this in the first place.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby RedRaven on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:30 am

Yuka, this isn't an "Alternative" This is meant to replace the Warrior Mage. Basically a different sort of write up and all that jazz.
RedRaven
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:16 pm

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby lyllamarie on Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:40 pm

Replacing Warrior Mage is a big deal, and not likely to get approval. The idea may be broken down, and some aspects used in the review of Warrior Mage, as most ideas that may not see the chopping board are.

The intent may be considered faulty for the game, but the smaller ideas that come from it aren't.
We have to take into consideration how many actually want to keep WaM, years of work already poured into the class, and so forth.

New spells for a Class is easier to get through, and like Miyuka said, it would be nice to see a few for WaM presented so that, either when WaM is up for review, or if we want to interject them into the Arcana Sphere earlier, we can take those player provided spells under consideration.
User avatar
lyllamarie
High Council
High Council
 
Posts: 3874
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:48 pm
Location: lurking on the message board.

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby miyuka on Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:16 pm

there are some nice ideas floating around in the spells section by the way for anyone that would like to chime in over there and/or add their own ideas to it.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby Rei-Kai on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:34 pm

Update to Rune Knight. I added two spells for Rune Sphere above with more to come. Several more along the same concept as "Earthly Attunement" for use against the other E-mage classes with the same effectiveness. I had considered one universal spell for that that changes depending on the opponent, but that seemed far too cheap so I felt it was better to break it up.

Miyuka: So you want WaM's to have heat metal, Shimmering armour and Mirror image?


I have no idea what you're on about there, so I'll move along.

Miyuka: Where are you going with the elven warbow thing?


I was giving an example. That combination is, in effect, far greater than the "Rock the Boat" spell. Which effectively makes "Rock the Boat" entirely useless. I don't think anyone even uses it except to say "I have the spell". That is, of course, my opinion on it.

Miyuka: Also keep in mind, that firstly dev may be slow but it ain't stagnant. Check the news from the admin section for updates. Secondly, not every idea that gets brought up is going to be accepted. That would be like madness. Yes you may have had your ideas rejected, it happens. It doesn't mean we reject everything. And if you think Dev does then that's your own problem.


This is not a subject that I will elaborate on due to the sensitive nature of it and I will simply move onward.

Miyuka: That being said if this is supposed to be an alternative to Wam, then the title of your thread is misleading, which is why I was so boggled by this in the first place.


As Red had mentioned, it's a Replacement, not an alternative. If it was an Alternative I'd have to create an entirely different concept. Rune Knight applies the same concept as Warrior-Mage, only, I should say, a but more fully developed and evolved.

lullamarie: Replacing Warrior Mage is a big deal, and not likely to get approval. The idea may be broken down, and some aspects used in the review of Warrior Mage, as most ideas that may not see the chopping board are.


This I do not agree with. It is not that big of a deal when such replacements are not unknown. As such, some Adv Classes have been revised in favor of eliminating other Adv classes from the system to make a select few more desireable to play.

lyllamarie: The intent may be considered faulty for the game, but the smaller ideas that come from it aren't.
We have to take into consideration how many actually want to keep WaM, years of work already poured into the class, and so forth.


I will elaborate further with this, and say that this sounds more like an excuse not to allow a change rather than an actual reason. The same applies to classes that had previously existed, only to be dropped in favor to placing a shiny new coat of paint on a few others. Berserker, Dark Paladin and Assassin had all been removed from the system in favor of revising Paladin, Monk and Mist Raider to make them more appeasable to players. Not every player was happy with these decisions which forced them to respec their class.

I can also say that, having been part of dev work for the SI team in the past, watching entire lists get purged and replaced/refurbished was not pleasant, and was done so despite the "years of work" poured into the creation of such things. It's a development process. Advancing the game may, at times, require breaking classes down and starting it over from scratch to make something new. It doesn't have to be pleasant and not everyone has to like it. But I can say that I feel a lot of WaM players would accept a Replacement to WaM than just c/p a few ideas to slap on there and say "it's better now".

Throwing a new coat of paint on an old car doesn't make it run better, it just makes it look pretty.

Let me also note that, as stated earlier, WaM has 23 points to stats (total) while other Adv classes max at 18. Which means any revision to the class will involve redefining stat distribution, which would mean every WaM player would have to Reset their characters and reapply their stats again anyway.
Image
User avatar
Rei-Kai
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 am

Re: Rune Knight, a Replacement for Warrior-Mage

Postby miyuka on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:14 am

The aforementioned spells are all the Mage X3 spells in the Arcana sphere. I listed them because you said that WaM should have access up to Mage X3

The reason I asked if it was a replacement or an alternative is because you said that you were trying to find an alternative to people who played Warrior mage. It was unclear if you had meant that in the sense that you wanted to replace the class or add a slightly different one.


Rune Armour:
PRetty nice spell, double stamina for double effect but less time spent getting it all up. Only thing I've an issue with is the duration. On the one hand I do like the upkeep portion, on the other hand it can potentially last forever. Maybe there should be a mechanic in which the person using this can't do an !evade whilst it is up, or have the duration be equal to the number of times the class has been selected and then remove the upkeep portion, just have the initial huge stamina drain. Also in the description it says that it can't be combined with other spells but that is not in the mechanics portion, definetly needs added in there.


Earthly Attunement:
Kewl spell. Typo in the description "...which calls up which calls up..." I think the added damage might be a bit much. MAybe one extra damager for every 5 slots. I like that it changes physical attacks to clomag, but I imagine that should be noted that it's only when using the sword. I'm not sure I understand how it would changed ranged physical attacks to be magical. For the air mage thing, why not just have it that it counts as an earth spell towards aeromancers since aeromancers have the disadvantage:

Sky's Falling
Because of their dedication to their chosen element, an elemental mage will be more susceptible to spells from opposing elements. They will take and additional 25% damage from spells of the opposite element and sphere of magic. Earth spells will deal 25% more damage to the air mage.
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5116
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Next

Return to Races, Classes and Skills

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests