Healer Advanced Classes

[Aramis]

I don't know if it's intentional, or whether anyone else has even noticed it, but I just realized the other day that Healers have only one Advanced Class they can evolve into, and that's Seductress, which means that male healers have no Advance Class options. I just wanted to point that out as maybe something that possibly needed attention.

[Amethine]

I've been thinking a lot about this too.

"Healers" have very little going for them in terms of progression, at least compared to other classes. There's no Umbara/Unigo specific spells, their reward for hitting Healerx7 is lackluster compared to other classes and as you say, only females have the option of "Advancing" the class, which makes them completely drop their Healing lifestyle they once had.

I was in the process of drafting up a series of spells to offer as a suggestion, but I think the idea of an advanced class specifically for advancing the essential skill of lifesaving could be a viable option.

Spells I was in the process of drafting were things like, a stabilization spell to stop someone from bleeding out (put their body "on hold" as it were, the damage would still be there and needing fixed, but any debilitating effects like poisons, bleeds etc are simple "paused", though this couldn't be cast on a conscious patient, requiring them to be put to sleep or knocked out first); a fix for the spell Healer's Rescue to either split or remove the Life element, as nobody would EVER use that to restore Life over using the Heal spell, an overhaul of the Anchored Savior Spell to add the ability to create a temporary "designated spot" that the spell would then teleport to instead (Say, a separate spell that requires Anchored Savior to be learned first, that takes an hour IC to cast or something). The "Healer's Sacrifice" ability, which is a powerful class ability, could be moved to this new advanced class, and Healers instead get a version that's used to save themselves. So, "Due to awareness of their own anatomy, once per combat after they fail a defense roll but before damage is rolled, they can declare "Healer's Reflex!" and reduce the incoming damage by 10% for each time Healer class is taken". Advanced Healers could keep this, and gain the ability to save the life of another, or drop it for just saving another. I was also tossing around the potential of an AoE heal of some kind, buff/debuffs that makes sense for Healers to have and not least of all, "end game" spells that a Healer would want to aspire to get.

I get that the lvl 30 Water spells are powerful, but are Out of Battle, which kinda limits them to RP flavor and specific quests that the GM is deliberately thinking of, as Cure Disease, Cure Poison and Heal ALL do the same thing, and IN battle as well. Adding an advanced class to Healer that actually advances Healing in some regard also gives the opportunity to create higher level spells to reward those who really go the distance. Why not make that little golf-flag at level 50 to give Healers an aoe version of Healer's Helping Hand, or a non-lethal attack spell that aims to stop an aggressor by magically locking up their specific joints? I admit, I'm spitballing here as my writeups didn't reach this far yet, but the general idea is gotten across, yes?

As I said, I was in the process of writing all this out into a format that would be presentable to dev's, and look somewhat balanced, but since you brought up Healer end-game Aramis, I wanted to write a little something. If only to show my KEEN interest in this subject! I like Healers! I wanna see fun new toys for them!

[miyuka]

It's intentional.

[miyuka]

to be more clear, what's intentional is healers not having an actual advanced class. That they can even advance to Seductress is something from the old days and if it were up to just me wouldn't even be a thing. If you note, they also can only cross class with very few things and again if it were up to only me that list would be even more limited than it is right now. Healers are healers and if one wishes to go that route then that's the route and mindset that they go with. The male healer not having an advanced path is not really intentional, it's just the way things worked out and no that's not going to change currently.

[Amethine]

to be more clear, what's intentional is healers not having an actual advanced class. That they can even advance to Seductress is something from the old days and if it were up to just me wouldn't even be a thing. If you note, they also can only cross class with very few things and again if it were up to only me that list would be even more limited than it is right now. Healers are healers and if one wishes to go that route then that's the route and mindset that they go with. The male healer not having an advanced path is not really intentional, it's just the way things worked out and no that's not going to change currently.

So, out of curiosity then, what about my suggestion of an advanced class for Healers that actually advances that mindset? Mages can advance into greater mages by focusing on an element, clerics can advance into priests/priestesses. Druids (and others) into Heirophants etc.

Could the possibility of, say Healer into Lifeward (or something) be explored? An advanced class that takes the Healer's Mindset and offers a path of progression for it without losing any of the Healing skills or abilities learned in the process?

Might be a bit of work to rejig spells and things, sure, but I feel that adding an advanced class could offer a level of prestige for older Healers, and open up RP possibilities for young Healers looking up to the Lifewards as role models and teachers.

[Naomh]

While they certainly do lean that way, advanced classes aren't meant to be (base class) but better.

mages can advance into pyromancers, but they lose the ability to use ice/water magic in the process and their access to illusion, arcana and naval spheres in turn, they also swap a magical defense bonus for one specifically anti-fire. In many ways a pyromancer is actually a 'lesser mage' compared to the mage base class.

The same can be said for cleric and priest(ess). Clerics have better armour and weapons access, priest(ess) is squishier. Clerics use of magic is more one-on-one while a priest(ess) is more group-based. Clerics are individuals out to help the clergy and do the dirty work, priest(ess) are leaders of the faith and guide those along the path of the faithful.

Advanced classes are more specialized and supposed to offer some alternatives, and we're working away on making that be the case, but saying that 'this is a healer but better' is completely the wrong mentality for advanced classes. A healer x7 is your Lifeward, the ideal healer that can be aspired to, the pinnacle of the healing class, no need to make an advanced class for that pursuit.

[Farvel]

Indeed, not everything requires an advanced class (although a healer turning necromancer would be a fun twist).

That said, we could use more advanced healer spells with higher class requirement. Right now there's little reason to evolve the class to its fullest.

[Weissteufel]

While they certainly do lean that way, advanced classes aren't meant to be (base class) but better.

Just wanted to throw my two coppers in on this thread, because I find it a very interesting topic. I see where you're coming from Naomh, specifically where Advanced Classes are meant to be specialized. When you look at the mechanics of the advanced classes versus the mechanics of the base classes, it does seem that the advanced classes are definitely getting more bang for their buck from a purely numerical standpoint.

On average, base classes receive about a total +9 bonus to their attributes when a new level is taken, whereas advanced classes average anywhere from around +17 on the low end, to a whopping +23 on the high end with the Warrior Mage. While I do understand that the room is meant to be primarily free form RP, I can understand the desire to have access to an equivalent advancement progression as a Healer, from a strictly mechanical ical standpoint if nothing else.

[Gabriel Storm-Dancer]

mages can advance into pyromancers, but they lose the ability to use ice/water magic in the process and their access to illusion, arcana and naval spheres in turn, they also swap a magical defense bonus for one specifically anti-fire.

Asking because I'm not sure. If you went Fire Mage, but kept some base mage on you as well...would you still keep those benefits? Mage/Fire Mage x? would still grant you access back to the Arcana Sphere (granted it's limited access, I understand that) and likely some Naval Spells too?

On the Healer Advanced class issue...I can see the want and the need for some. Both from a purely mechanical standpoint, as well as an rp standpoint. But this is just my two bits.

[miyuka]

For the moment there is no Advanced magical healing class in the works nor are we looking to have one created. As I've said in the past, a healer is a healer and that is all. Having more spells can always happen or even cleaning up some of the spells currently on the list.

If you go from mage to pyromancer you keep the spells you learned you can't use ones that are ice/water related. Also keep in mind that a number of spells have class requirement to be used such as you need to be a mage X3 (as in you've selected that class three times).