Adjustment to the First Aid Ranked Skill

[Dante_Ambrogio]

so I am proposing a slight alteration to the First Aid Ranked skill with this post, it seems a little bit lackluster and while I recognize that magical healing is the norm within the Empire there are times where magical healing just isn't viable and so my suggestions made here are to improve the First Aid skill to allow it to more fully encompass Proper Analogue Medicine of the time period.

Current Skill:
First Aid/Triage(Any Class)
Novice - Able to make a battlefield or emergency decision about whether the patient may be moved or not.
Apprentice - Able to sort out injured based on the simple symptoms of their ailments.
Journeyman - Able to staunch the flow of blood on a small wound or begin preparation of a body for rezzing.
Expert - Able to stabalize a rough wound on a person and keep them from dying immediately of blood loss. Able to apply bandages properly to simple wounds.
Master - Able to stabalize all forms of wounds, if not a healer themselves, able to work to help one. Able to completely prepare a corpse for rezzing.

Suggested Changes:
Analogue Medicine(Any Class)
Novice - Able to make a battlefield or emergency decision about whether the patient may be moved or not; able to properly triage in a controlled environment.
Apprentice - Able to diagnose simple ailments and injuries and decide upon a reasonable course of treatment; able to perform triage in any environment; basic knowledge of the medicinal properties of various herbs
Journeyman - Able to begin preparation of a body for rezzing; able to examine intermediate injuries and diagnose most ailments and decide upon the proper course of treatment; able to properly apply bandages to simple wounds; advanced knowledge of medicinal properties of various herbs
Expert - Able to stabilize a rough wound on a person and keep them from dying immediately of blood loss. Able to apply bandages properly to all wounds; beginning knowledge of medicinal properties of poisonous plants; able to brew strictly medicinal teas; can begin to teach Analogue Medicine to another
Master - Able to treat all forms of wounds, if not a healer themselves, able to work to help one. Able to completely prepare a corpse for rezzing; Master knowledge of Medicinal properties of herbs and poisonous plants; ability to delay the effects of poisons in the body through the use of medicinal teas; ability to create salves and ointments for medicinal purpose provided the proper facilities; beginning knowledge of Advanced Medical Procedures

Advanced Analogue Medicine(Any Class) Pre-Req: Master of Analogue Medicine, Master of Alchemy
Novice - Able to perform simple surgeries and come up with advanced forms of medicinal tinctures, elixirs, and salves to fit the purpose of a patients needs.
Apprentice - Able to Diagnose Magical Ailments and come up with treatment plans to alleviate their symptoms but not cure them.
Journeyman - Able to Perform Intermediate Surgeries and procedures; knows exactly how to counteract any common poison using elixirs or medicinal teas and can create the same.
Expert - Able to begin teaching Advanced Analogue Medicine to another; Has advanced understanding of the theories required to completely cure Magical Ailments and can form treatment plans that will ensure the patient can survive long enough to be properly tended.
Master - Able to Diagnose, Treat, and with the help of the magically inclined (if you yourself are not) cure all known Magical Ailments and Wounds that can be treated/cured; considered a Master of Mundane Medicine and Surgery.

Yes I realize that its broken up into two skills here but I think this would create better chances for RP, especially for characters who don't have access to Magic but still want to be able to help heal others or between characters who for whatever reason refuse magical healing. This also gives a little bit of spice into things as Magical Healing would become impractical if too much is applied at one time (the body of the one being healed becoming overwhelmed by the rapidity of the healing and the energy in themselves that it would burn) and so this allows magical and nonmagical individuals to team up for RP's to ensure that wounds get fully treated and adds more depth to the world.

[DiasEesha]

At first blush I like this though Im, currently, pondering over if perhaps a touch of it is a bit more advanced than the intended world "backdrop" would support, of course on the other hand we do have some sources that help make the argument that at least most, if not all, of this is possible.

[miyuka]

I'd say it's a little too complex given the magical nature of the world and the fact that in the end it is supposed to be up to healers (the magical class) to be able to well be the healers. Anything beyond the Triage/first aid aspect I'd say may be pushing it, I don't mind the original skill being less lackluster, but the curent suggestion just takes it too far IMHO.

[Dante_Ambrogio]

I'd say it's a little too complex given the magical nature of the world and the fact that in the end it is supposed to be up to healers (the magical class) to be able to well be the healers. Anything beyond the Triage/first aid aspect I'd say may be pushing it, I don't mind the original skill being less lackluster, but the curent suggestion just takes it too far IMHO.

Yes this is true but at some point magic runs out and mundane healing should be able to complement and support the magical healing, also, you cannot magically remove a shard of a ships hull out of a Minotaurs back without massive hemorrhaging which is where the mundane healing would come in hand to stop the bleeding until magic healing could be done later. Additionally, mundane healing offers much better opportunities for roleplay than a “here’s a spell, wham bam thank you ma’am/sir and now you are done” exchange”

[Amara]

While I can appreciate the time/thoughtfulness/effort put into this proposal, it's a player driven game.

There will be a percentage of players who will fully want the "wham bam thank you ma’am/sir" medical aid.
While others may want a more deeper/in-depth/detailed healing experience.

I'm okay with a possible revamp of the current First Aid/Triage, but the Advanced Analogue Medicine is basically a Healer's job.

It would be up to that player on how they RP their Healer. We are given the freedom to play our characters how we'd like to,
within game rules, etc. Using RP fluff at our discretion.

[miyuka]

not to mention it's supposed to be a world -very- steeped in magical usage. So while you could make the argument for a lot of things and how they could r should work, you start to take apart the vision of what the person making the game originally wanted it to be so we have to be careful with such things. Ultimately, the healer class is going to be the ones doing such things and we really don't need to require them too have to spend even more things getting these skills to do what they should be able to do when they already have spells and levels as a sort of gate to what they can do. Keeping the skill in it's more simple form allows for those without the magic to help and those with the magic to be able to do more than -just- the magical stuff without require too much more of the player.

[Naomh]

I was always under the assumption, perhaps want, of the first aid skill being sort of the mundane compliment and, in a pinch, fill-in for magical healing. After all while it is a world of high magic, there still will be pockets where magical healers will not be. It's obviously not going to be as good as magical healing, even with herbs and potions it'll be slower, more restricted, more likely to scar, etc...

Essentially, I feel as it is, first aid/triage -is- underwhelming in almost all regards, but perhaps a small bump in what the ranks are capable of, no need to make them as good as a magical healer, nor overly complicate them. Just a small boost to the skill as a whole.

[miyuka]

Like I said, adjustments to the First aid/triage skill, is fine, but the OP's original idea of splitting it up so much is definetly too much. It should never be to the point of what the healer class is capable of doing. Mundane healing is perfectly fine and has a place, but lets not overly complicate the skill system anymore than it is. Keep in mind the skill is called first aid/triage:

Triage: the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

First aid: help given to a sick or injured person until full medical treatment is available.

[Dante_Ambrogio]

Like I said, adjustments to the First aid/triage skill, is fine, but the OP's original idea of splitting it up so much is definetly too much. It should never be to the point of what the healer class is capable of doing. Mundane healing is perfectly fine and has a place, but lets not overly complicate the skill system anymore than it is. Keep in mind the skill is called first aid/triage:

Triage: the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

First aid: help given to a sick or injured person until full medical treatment is available.

First Aid: first aid
noun
emergency aid or treatment given to someone injured, suddenly ill, etc., before regular medical services arrive or can be reached.

triage
[ tree-ahzh ]
noun
the process of sorting victims, as of a battle or disaster, to determine medical priority in order to increase the number of survivors.
the determination of priorities for action:
She began her workday with a triage of emails.

adjective
of, relating to, or performing the task of triage:
a triage officer.

verb (used with object), tri·aged, tri·ag·ing.
to act on or in by triage:
to triage a crisis.
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As I now have proper time to return to TLI and I am back from my rather extended leave of absence and have been able to look more into the world of TLI I can reply to the arguments against this suggestion and revision of the First Aid Skill.

I start first with the proper definitions because they are important here for a number of reasons; yes the current skill is called First Aid/Triage but it is also not a well developed skill at all nor does it actually reflect all of what either first aid or triage calls upon someone who in the purview of the setting of TLI would be considered a First Responder or Combat Medic. As someone who OOC has personally worked in fields where I have had to perform both Triage and First Aid more frequently than I had to participate in the more major forms of our healing such as surgeries and other more major procedures.

Also; having discussed with my friends within TLI; I have seen several times over that there has been a stated problem with Magical healing that it does indeed heal wounds quickly and expediently but that is is not infallible nor does it always do so without leaving scarring; neuropathic pain; or other long term problems. This fact is why I suggested the revision (as this is indeed what my suggestion truly is) to the First Aid skill and structured it the way that I did; the revision would take the current, mostly underdeveloped skill, and allow those who for whatever reason (personal choice for IC play, no magical ability due to choice in class, etc) do not have the ability to use Magic to heal themselves or others to still be able to contribute towards the healing process through alternative, non-magical methods. This in no way removes or interferes with magical healing as at any point in the natural healing process a character with the Healer class could come along and then magically heal the situation needing medical attention.

Secondly; the reason that I have seen within TLI both through discussions with other players as well as just through observing IC play lateral to my own when I have been IC in a room with others is that not everybody desires or can afford to run to the nearest Healer for magical healing. Thus; the revision of the First Aid skill suggested would allow IC play where characters would be able to make attempts to heal things without magic; yes of course that healing would be much slower and would require vastly greater amounts of down time and recovery time if the attempts are successful but it would provide one more way that people could do IC things; including integrating an Herbalism component into the revised First Aid by allowing the growing and utilization of their own medicinal herbs such as Arctic Rose, Yarrow Trees, Willow Trees (for the Willow Bark for teas and such), Nightshade, Belladonna, Arnica, Devil's Claw, and other such herbs and materials.

[miyuka]

I am failing to understand what it is you want people with this skill to be able to do. They can already stabilize wounds and prep bodies for rezzing. The whole thing about people not being able to run to the nearest healer I don't get. If there are simply no healers around that's no different than no one being around to open a store. That's just the nature of a player run game as well as the point of the current skill. The person with first aid/triage skill would be able to help treat the person till a proper healer showed up, if such was even needed. If it's a scrape or a cut or something not life threatening then you wouldn't even need to worry about a healer.

The heal spells are not instantaneous, they take time and just speed up the natural healing process. the confusion there that you get from other players is due to the spell not stating as such and people taking things their own way. That's something that can be fixed by just making a note of it within the spell description.

[Dante_Ambrogio]

While I can appreciate the time/thoughtfulness/effort put into this proposal, it's a player driven game.

There will be a percentage of players who will fully want the "wham bam thank you ma’am/sir" medical aid.
While others may want a more deeper/in-depth/detailed healing experience.

I'm okay with a possible revamp of the current First Aid/Triage, but the Advanced Analogue Medicine is basically a Healer's job.

It would be up to that player on how they RP their Healer. We are given the freedom to play our characters how we'd like to,
within game rules, etc. Using RP fluff at our discretion.

I was always under the assumption, perhaps want, of the first aid skill being sort of the mundane compliment and, in a pinch, fill-in for magical healing. After all while it is a world of high magic, there still will be pockets where magical healers will not be. It's obviously not going to be as good as magical healing, even with herbs and potions it'll be slower, more restricted, more likely to scar, etc...

Essentially, I feel as it is, first aid/triage -is- underwhelming in almost all regards, but perhaps a small bump in what the ranks are capable of, no need to make them as good as a magical healer, nor overly complicate them. Just a small boost to the skill as a whole.

I am going to go ahead and bump this one back to the surface and refer to these two comments specifically as perhaps they are the most important as they are where the interest from the others that play and are in the community seem to lie. Dispense with the Advanced Analogue Medicine and do a bit of a rework on the First Aid as Amara suggested so that it is more fully fleshed out and provides a better framework for RP opportunities for those that seek to use it that way and for those that wish to use it instead of magical healing it can provide an alternative than the quickness of Magical Healing.

[miyuka]

The skill is already the alternative to magical healing, but it will never be on par as magical healing.

[Dante_Ambrogio]

While I can appreciate the time/thoughtfulness/effort put into this proposal, it's a player driven game.

There will be a percentage of players who will fully want the "wham bam thank you ma’am/sir" medical aid.
While others may want a more deeper/in-depth/detailed healing experience.

I'm okay with a possible revamp of the current First Aid/Triage, but the Advanced Analogue Medicine is basically a Healer's job.

It would be up to that player on how they RP their Healer. We are given the freedom to play our characters how we'd like to,
within game rules, etc. Using RP fluff at our discretion.

The skill is already the alternative to magical healing, but it will never be on par as magical healing.

I remember now why I had originally suggested the revamp and rewording to Analogue Medicine; Analogue Medicine as a name would cover things like Chiropractic Care (not something that you would get magical healing for) or things like a common cold or seasonal allergies/illnesses (which some people do in fact RP out and would not be taken care of by magical healing because it would be a waste of time on both the part of the healer who could be expending their magical energies on a patient that had actual injuries that needed their tending but also on the patient who could have gone to see someone who has studied the non-magical side of healing and could have prescribed them herbal remedies, told them they needed to be administered leeches (actually a thing done even today; though it is much less common now), needed to have a small wound debrided and bandaged, etc. etc. etc.

[miyuka]

as I've said in a thread before, we are not trying to have a skill for every single thing. We try to keep it simple without having to bog down players with needing skills to do everything. There's already more then enough skills as is in the game.