Player Input to Development

Questions and suggestions for additions or changes to these topics

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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby miyuka on Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:19 pm

I can assure you, Torians are not getting shafted because they don't have all the feathered spells. If that is how you feel, I'm sorry for your loss, but there is more to Torian than just these feather related spells. Is it a bit odd? Sure. Are they useless? I guess that's up to the player. However, this isn't the spot to argue about such things, so please take your angered thoughts to another section and leave this for just putting in your suggestions. Again, Thank you for your input.


Edit: Oh I see where the disconnect is. I should have said that we are not going to be dealing with those spells during this review of the race. Apologies. This is specifically for the race page.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Naomh on Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:58 pm

We have finished work on Paladins, and are now working on

Priest(ess)

The general consensus is that there's a lot to do to this class, and all the more reason to ask players for their input on Priest(ess). If you have any thoughts/concerns/etc... on the class, please post below.

Also remember we are also still working on Torian and still welcome input.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Naomh on Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:13 am

Enchantments

Some dislike them, some love them, nearly everyone has them. Certainly one of the most active sections of the Sorcerous Sanctuary is the enchanting scene.

I'm going to start going through the sphere soon, thinking over the what's what, clarifying many things, breaking some apart perhaps and editing others where necessary.

As this is going to start with me fiddling around and mostly thinking things over, I can't promise that there'll be many changes, or even any changes, much less changes soon. All that said I am curious about what you all think, my enchanters, those who have enchantments and those who have fought against enchantments. Those who have looked through the list and have questions or input, requests and grumblings, please let me know here.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby The Mercenary Abby on Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:40 am

Well, as someone who has dealt with enchantments plenty of times, I do have a few questions about enchantments that could use clarification:

  1. OOB Spells in the Enchantment list that do not mention of any cost for Permanence CANNOT be permanently enchanted, yes? For example: Reflect does not have any mention of it, but Tongues do.
  2. CAN Ballistas or Ballista Bolts be enchanted with ATK Enchantment? Or a permanent spell enchantment, at that.
  3. Somewhat similar to the above, CAN a bow AND arrows be permanently enchanted with spells? If so, would they stack?
  4. Would Stamina/Life stat enchantment count into !CLAW? Even when CLAW doesn't factor in Stamina and Life in the first place?
  5. SHOULD stat enchantments factor into claw or just the raw stats? Mixed opinions on this in the past, with some believing they should while others believe it does not always have to as they are meant as an 'advantage'. This is regarding the !CLAW command, by the way. !CLAW "Character A" "Character B" vs !CLAW "Character A+5" "Character B+5" (assuming they each have +5 in a stat).
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Akaton on Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:03 am

Well when it comes to having enchantments, I guess I have a few. Actually probably 90% of my inventory with the exception of my stuff from the works is enchanted.

I dont got much to say in the realm of the where itself but believe a loop hole should be closed. One I used at one point. That being getting spells one cannot otherwise get. Mainly elemental mages. As a drawback I couldnt learn any fire spell, but I was and am currently able to get firebolt as an enchantment. It isa game loophole and not very in flavor with opposite elemental classes. As it gives an out and an advantage when going against someone of the same elemental class as yourself. I can honestly say I havent seen many use it, but its there to be used. And well is abusable. So possibly changing that would be for the best.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby The Mercenary Abby on Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:00 am

Akaton wrote:That being getting spells one cannot otherwise get. Mainly elemental mages. As a drawback I couldnt learn any fire spell, but I was and am currently able to get firebolt as an enchantment.
I might be wrong, but I believe L addressed this at some point and said Elemental Mages cannot use enchantments that opposes their element in any way. Just another one of those costs for taking an Elemental path.

I could be wrong, though.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Gabriel Storm-Dancer on Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:20 pm

I'm of mixed opinion on enchantments. I honestly think it should be more restrictive for EVERYONE!!! regardless of if you are a magical or physical based class. Though expensive, it's also too easy to talk into the SS and get stacked. I'm not entirely sure how to do this, yet...so all I can offer is...perhaps work a way to make the enchantments you get more restrictive, so that you have to actually think and consider before getting chant X vs chant Y. Something given up for something earned, if that makes sense.

-Player of Gabriel

*Also...maybe consider giving Earth some representation in weapon enchants? If we're to stay true to the theme of the classes, and IF ele mages cannot enchant the opposing at all, then the opposing enchants should have added effect. IE:

Fire Mage with 15 slot flame bolt damage enchant that damages a water mage. That +3 damage from the flame bolt enchant should have more of a damaging effect on the water mage. And the same theory applies to each opposing sphere. The only problem is....Air Mages are safe from extra damage off that, because there is no earth representation for damage enchants. Mayhaps add something for them? If this is something we actually to do?

Just my half a copper worth of opinion
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby The Mercenary Abby on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:58 pm

Just putting this here for future references until told otherwise :) This was Naomh's response to two of my questions I posted on this thread:
  1. CAN Ballistas or Ballista Bolts be enchanted with ATK Enchantment? Or a permanent spell enchantment, at that.
  2. Somewhat similar to the above, CAN a bow AND arrows be permanently enchanted with spells? If so, would they stack?
[2019-02-22 01:47:57] <Naomh> That's one I'l need to double-check, but seeing how it's a weapon...
[2019-02-22 02:01:38]<Naomh> And the general rule of thumb is enchantments on projectiles and on the launchers stack.

Now as for my input on enchantments, it would have to be regarding the question, "Can an Ice Mage wield a weapon/item that has fire-element spells enchanted in them?" My opinion on the matter is "No".

From my understanding - also from what I recall said by L herself - it should work similar to how an Ice Mage cannot keep their Fire Bolt and/or Burning Fingers spells once they have advanced from Mage to Ice Mage. Fire Bolt enchantments (the non-permanent one) allows the wielder to cast the said spell, which - ICly, at least, to me - means that fire magic will have to flow through the wielder in the first place. For someone like an Ice Mage - who should be full of the ice magic and is, by concept, opposed to fire magic - to wield anything WITH fire element should, in theory, harm them.

This would technically render the enchanted item unusable by the Ice Mage.

Which, to me, is a small price to pay once you transition from base class to advance class, since you're gaining access to more stat points increase at Level 10, 15, 20, 25, and/or 30 on top of bigger spells.

Now for an Ice Mage to wield a 'Fire Sword'? I'd say my opinion on the matter is similar: they cannot. An Ice Mage being that close to ANY 'fire magic' would harm the former.

Sides, these weapons with spells permanently enchanted in them should be for the benefit of non-mages more than to mages. An Air Mage would not be harmed by the 'Fire Sword', though, as their magic elements do not oppose each other.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Weissteufel on Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:46 pm

I have a few suggestions for enchantments, including a few proposed enchantments that I would like to get some feedback on.

Firstly, while martial classes are unable to utilize spell enchantments due to not having magic access as part of their class, the enchantments Physical Armor and Magical Armor should be available to martial classes. From both an RP and a mechanics perspective, it makes little sense for a primary casting class to have a higher overall defensive rating than a physical class in full heavy armor. In nearly all fantasy setting RPGs, that is the standard trade off. The magical classes have upfront firepower at the cost of being "squishy," while the martial classes have better availability to protective armor and defense at the cost of high damage output.

Suggested Enchantments

Returning - This enchantment can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. Projectiles are not eligible for this enchantment. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the wielder’s next turn.

Dueling - A weapon with the Dueling enchantment, upon command of its wielder, will deal non-lethal damage to whomever it strikes. This enchantment is primarily utilized by arena gladiators, sergeants training green soldiers, and other more creative applications where one wishes to wield a true weapon without risk of taking another's life.

Ensorcelled - Armor with this enchantment counts towards the wielder's defensive rolls against magical attacks.

Called - This enchantment can be placed upon armor and clothing, but not weaponry of any kind. If you aren't wearing armor or clothing at the time, the enchanted item appears on your body, as though you had donned it in the normal fashion. If you are wearing other armor or clothing of the same type when you speak the command word, the item appears within five feet of you. A called shield appears on the proper arm if you are not already using another shield when you call it, or five feet away if another shield is being wielded.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Menhir on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:39 am

Your 'Returning' enchant seems to be a mimic of the Warrior Mage's class perk 'Bonded Weapon' ... Don't think one of the coolest rp-able elements of the Warrior Mage class should be turned into a basic enchant that anyone can get.

Dueling - During any combat, the combatants can choose to 'hold back' from lethal strikes though it is up to both combatants to agree to do so, or one person can claim attempting to perform non lethal but it is up to the receiver of the damage to determine whether or not the damage is lethal.

Ensorcelled - ... We have a version of that already, the defense enchantments that provide up to +15 physical/magical armor at all times.

Called - we have something of a version of this, called the Morph enchantment which as the name implies, turns a piece of equipment from one thing into another. Such as turning a suit of armor into a heavy cloak, or turning boots into a pair of bangles etc etc.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Farvel on Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:53 am

Weissteufel wrote:From both an RP and a mechanics perspective, it makes little sense for a primary casting class to have a higher overall defensive rating than a physical class in full heavy armor.

This. So much this. :roll:
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Weissteufel on Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:02 pm

Menhir wrote:Your 'Returning' enchant seems to be a mimic of the Warrior Mage's class perk 'Bonded Weapon' ... Don't think one of the coolest rp-able elements of the Warrior Mage class should be turned into a basic enchant that anyone can get.


The Warrior Mage perk specifically states that it grants a +10 to initiative for calling a weapon to one's hand. This enchantment suggestion is more along the lines of someone using throwing daggers or even the classic Thor Mjolnir throwing hammer to be able to use that style in the following round. There is no mechanical bonus to the enchantment that would override nor outshine the class bonus.

Menhir wrote:Dueling - During any combat, the combatants can choose to 'hold back' from lethal strikes though it is up to both combatants to agree to do so, or one person can claim attempting to perform non lethal but it is up to the receiver of the damage to determine whether or not the damage is lethal.


Fair enough.

Menhir wrote:Ensorcelled - ... We have a version of that already, the defense enchantments that provide up to +15 physical/magical armor at all times.

From a mechanical perspective, a mage having the maximum +15 DEF along with 15 slots of Magical Armor has a +30 to defend against Magic, whereas the martial classes can at most only have +15 DEF against such attacks. To quote my original post, from both an RP and a mechanics perspective, it makes little sense for a primary casting class to have a higher overall defensive rating than a physical class in full heavy armor. Regardless of the attack type.

Menhir wrote:Called - we have something of a version of this, called the Morph enchantment which as the name implies, turns a piece of equipment from one thing into another. Such as turning a suit of armor into a heavy cloak, or turning boots into a pair of bangles etc etc.


This is more meant as an enchantment suggestion where a suit of armor or such can be left elsewhere, and summoned by the wielder. Similar to Tony Stark's Iron Man suit, for inspiration. Though, if the Morph enchantment allows for someone to keep their armor or clothing enchanted with such in another place rather than on their person, and still be able to don such armor, then I would concede that this suggestion is superfluous.
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Farvel on Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:01 am

Weissteufel wrote:
Menhir wrote:Ensorcelled - ... We have a version of that already, the defense enchantments that provide up to +15 physical/magical armor at all times.

From a mechanical perspective, a mage having the maximum +15 DEF along with 15 slots of Magical Armor has a +30 to defend against Magic, whereas the martial classes can at most only have +15 DEF against such attacks.

Or +30 against physical attacks, if they choose the Physical Armor spell instead (or any elemental equivalent spells, every class has them). And that, along with:
- the armor rating itself
- spells that make the warrior take automatic damage for even trying to hit the caster
- spells that cut opponent's attack/defense rolls by 30% or more (some whose duration lasts until the end of the fight)
- stun spells that make recovering stamina a breeze
- spells like "mirror image" that reduce the changes of even attacking the right target to 1/6 (!)
- etc.

Right now, a magical class fighting a non-magical class is not a fight, it's just plain bullying. :roll:
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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Joshua_Jericho on Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:52 am

Picking up on the enchantment stuff :

Some general questions (I intend to do a more wide-ranging review this week.)

  1. Bearing in mind the change so that only magical classes can use spell enchants, would it be the worst thing in the world to get rid of spell enchants entirely, and replace them with only effects? Most of the existing spell enchants could easily be turned into effects instead. Alternatively, restricting them to only wands?
  2. Looking at the points about DEF above, is it too radical a change to suggest perhaps altering how DEF enchants work, such as instead tying them to the armour value of the item enchanted, or having a different max for different classes of armour?
  3. Called/Morph - from memory Morph doesn't alter the weight or size of the item in question - I seem to recall a quote about a sword morphed into a pen being forearm length and very heavy. I think it's intended as a transmog.

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Re: Player Input to Development

Postby Adonai on Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:44 pm

Right now, a magical class fighting a non-magical class is not a fight, it's just plain bullying. :roll: Only if des likes you.
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