Bonding

Questions and suggestions relating to deities and temples

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Re: Bonding

Postby Joshua_Jericho on Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 pm

Just an idiot's question from someone not completely familiar with the game world, as of yet...

How does being "recognised" as official improve a bonding? If we were talking real-world stuff, I'd be looking at tax benefits, shared ownership of property, hospital visitation rights, inheritance, etc.

....Unless I've quietly been cheating Mr StormDude out of his taxes, in which case lock me up with Al, I haven't really noticed these within the game. Resurrections sort of mess up inheritance stuff, and I'm pretty sure the Healer's House doesn't demand to see proof of identity before visiting patients, so... What exactly does being "recognised" do?

Also, just as a quiet nudge, is bonding state or religious? If it confers a state benefit, perhaps it might be prudent to instigate a "state bonding" in front of an IG official. Sort of like a registry-office marriage in the real world. That way, the minor religions who aren't important enough to get recognised can have their bonding for life ceremony out in the woods, then compound it with a state bonding to make it official.

Just my two cents, of course.

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Re: Bonding

Postby Archaon on Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:34 pm

Religious. The game world doesn't revolve around the concept of bonding and marriage. It's main support is for rape, slavery, dominance and submission, most facets of the BDSM lifestyle. Somewhere along the lines bonding was introduced, and my observations over the years have turned what was once fun into something entirely different.

I'm not blaming the concept of marriage/bonding alone for it. I'm sure there were other factors, but anyway I veered off the answer. The bondings are meant to be religious only, and any religion that's recognized by the Empire and by Stormbringer will facilitate said bonding ceremonies.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Stormbringer on Wed Jun 23, 2010 8:59 pm

No they don't have any state benefits I can think of, now there's no implications for revenge. That's why it's being thrown into the r/p arena rather than the game rules.
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Re: Bonding

Postby miyuka on Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:03 pm

What exactly is a bonding? is that the same thing as marriage? Also, if it's not recognized, what exactly does that mean for Miyuka and Braids whom have been happily married for a few years now. I wrote a story for it and all that good stuff, I think it's on the site somewhere.
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Re: Bonding

Postby lyllamarie on Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:05 pm

bonding is the equivalent of marriage, not exact of course.. but the TLI equivalent of..:)
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Re: Bonding

Postby Sorgram on Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:40 pm

I will be posting the Ceremony when I can get some time do clean it up.

Uvelcra views the bonding as the bringing together of two halves to complete one. As the god himself is of two parts, his view of bonding is that two parts are coming together and joining, hopefully to make them more spiritual and devoted to their god. He does not preclude that other relatiohships will happen outside of the bonding, but he would only bless the one. Once the Fire has met the Mountain, they are forever the Volcano, only upon the permanent Death of one will the other be separate again. since permanent deaths is almost unheard of, no more than one bonding will occur. The mountain can only contain one fire and the fire can only heat one mountain, although each may experience temporary visits with another, it cannot be permanent.

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Re: Bonding

Postby Stormbringer on Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:50 am

miyuka wrote:What exactly is a bonding? is that the same thing as marriage? Also, if it's not recognized, what exactly does that mean for Miyuka and Braids whom have been happily married for a few years now. I wrote a story for it and all that good stuff, I think it's on the site somewhere.


http://belariath.com/empire/memories/26-04.html

It means whatever you want it to mean. It's a part of your characters and your roleplay. It's a factor in your actions and reactions. The empire recognises bondings made under the eyes of the major deities but it's not like SB is going to send out anniversary cards or anything. And it has no implications one way or another for the rules of the game. It's something you built into your characters that is special to them.

I will be posting the Ceremony when I can get some time do clean it up.

Uvelcra views the bonding as the bringing together of two halves to complete one. As the god himself is of two parts, his view of bonding is that two parts are coming together and joining, hopefully to make them more spiritual and devoted to their god. He does not preclude that other relatiohships will happen outside of the bonding, but he would only bless the one. Once the Fire has met the Mountain, they are forever the Volcano, only upon the permanent Death of one will the other be separate again. since permanent deaths is almost unheard of, no more than one bonding will occur. The mountain can only contain one fire and the fire can only heat one mountain, although each may experience temporary visits with another, it cannot be permanent.


That's what I was aiming for. Things like that do more for the game generally than having another rule added.
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Re: Bonding

Postby miyuka on Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:37 pm

Oh! Thanks so muchly for clearing that up for me. Had me all worried for a sec there.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Keaira on Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:25 pm

For the Temple of Ishtar:

Ishtar’s concern is for pleasure and pleasure alone. The goddess does not care how pleasure is achieved, just that it is achieved. Bonding as an institution holds no interest for the goddess, other than if the bonding brings pleasure to the couple, and continues to do so. Pleasure does not have to exist exclusively within the bonding, either. Ishtar blesses any coupling that brings pleasure; it does not have to be only between bonded mates. She will only bless one union, because multiple unions would diminish the chances for pleasure through the increase of strife. But she encourages couplings with as many people as brings the worshipper pleasure, preferably at once. Bondings do not have to be for life. Since pleasure is Ishtar’s threshold, when pleasure is no longer being received, the bonding can be broken.

Any employee of the temple, Priest(ess) or above can perform the ceremony. The ceremony can take place anywhere that there is a shrine to Ishtar, including private residences. The most common places would be the Temple itself, or the gardens outside the Temple.

Ishtar is also the goddess of slavery. Slaves bring the goddess special pleasure, since their entire existence is dedicated to the pleasure of another. Ishtar views the relationship between a Master and a slave much more sacred than the bonding between two equals. This relationship can be dedicated in the Temple by any employee Priest(ess) or above. Please note, this is just a dedication, a formal blessing on this sacred relationship, this is not a bonding of any form.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Myra on Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:23 am

I'm so glad for the replies to this.. seeing a lot of similiar thoughts that I have in bonding.

Kydo and Myra were bonded.. and much like Sorgram says they see the bonding ceremony that is between two people that completes them. They have other lovers but there is something that is between only them that can not be duplicated by another bonding or mating. Its a promise not only to each other but before that goddess/god that they will do anything to make sure that the other is happy.

It will be nice to know each god/goddesses take on it and perhaps make it mean something more then each and every other thing here in the game. I'm not against the rough sex, the rape and slavery...but in all of that.. there just might be that one person that they are different with.
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Re: Bonding

Postby xmastersethx on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:26 pm

I might get some people that disagree with this, and I'm definitely open to discussion about specifics, but having been bonded once in a Kirvan Temple, having that bond broken, performing a few bondings, and breaking a bond within that Temple this is my write up for Bonding in the Eyes of Kirva.

The Dark Mother has nothing but loathing for the weak willed emotions of caring, affection, self sacrifice, and a desire to please anyone but herself. Yet she is one to understand that potency of synergy, the possibility of a union greater than the sum of its parts, and it is her desire to have such tools at her command. A bonding in Kirva's eyes can be for any reason, whether it be the desire to protect, the desire to grow in power, the desire to possess (a personal favorite of hers), but each partner must take willingly and often of the other. A bonding in her Temple involves in truth three partners, the two to be bonded and the Goddess herself. In accepting her blessing on your needy union, you give yourselves to her in service, a unit of fervent devotion she may work her will through, and perhaps in time grant offspring that will be as loyal to her as the the two bonded. There are only two ways a Bonding my be broken. Death isn't enough, one of the pair must kill the other, deciding that they are stronger without the extra apendage, or that their connection merely wasn't as important as they once believed. (Kirva rejoices darkly when this misconception is revealed) The other is if one partner is abandoned, the other must give themselves to the Temple completely. Trials and tortures enough to break most bodies and many a mind will be lain upon the one by the clergy in an attempt to prove themselves worthy of breaking a promise to Kirva. The bonding/unbonding Ceremony must be performed by the current High Priestess (or priest i suppose) of Kirva, unless special dispensation is given to let another member of the clergy perform it in their abscence.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Myra on Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:17 am

Truthfully Carth... I love it! Its something that displays her level of thoughts, in my opinion, wonderfully on how to get out of a bonding.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Shogeton on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:31 am

On Chirot marriage.

Chirot society lacks certain things that are involved in many other societies. There is no nobility to pass on titles, nor even possessions, or land to be shared. As such, political or economical motive for a marriage are virtually completely absent. However, there is one important reason why a pairing would wish to be recognized by Sheara and Chirot society. Honour and Glory. A Chirot marriage is a declaration, to both Mother Sheara and to the whole Chirot people, that the two mates share all glory and shame alike, and that one of them does, the other is considered to have made it possible as well, for good or ill. For the honour-conscious leatherwinged people, it is the greatest show of trust they can do to eachother, putting up their very names and reputation.

For this reason, Chirot marriages are public affairs. Of course, not every marriage gathers huge crowds, but they are loudly announced, and the ceremony itself is generally done at a high spot in the tower, spoken in loud voices, so that any that pass mighth hear it. It's always administered by a Shearan priest or priestess, who prays for Sheara to bear witness. The oaths are also uttered loudly, often personalized, but often refer to how the other mate repeatedly helped them in moment's of greatest pride, and made it all possible, and loudly confirm their desire that their mate should receive full praise for any honourable deed they themselves do, and that they themselves would take full responsibility for anything untowards the mate does.

There are no specifications for genders in those matters, the Chirot mostly egalitarian in genders. Pairs often raise children together, but it's not considered obligatory. What will raise questions are strong differences in authority. There is no slavery among the Chirot, but that is not to say some people might not have a tendency towards submissiveness. However, marriage oaths may not talk about one of the partners serving the other. The matter is also considered very intense, and each Chirot can only be said to share their honour with one other Chirot at a time. Then, recently, the question has arisen what to do if a Chirot was to marry a non-Chirot, like a human, a moriel or wolven for example. It is generally considered a somewhatfoolhardy and rash thing to do. As the Chirot is more likely to receive the shame of the non-Chirot acting in ways dishonourable to Chirot, (befriend Torian, own slaves?) while the non-Chirot would not benefit from the Honour of their Chirot partner, being unable to truly enjoy both the appreciation of Mother Sheara, or the admiration of Her children. Still, it has happened, and strikes the right chords for the more romantically inclined Chirot, and some even consider it might be a way to make inroads, and spread Chirot ways to non-Chirot people. Marriages to the featherwinged races are, naturally, considered absolutely anathema by Chirot society at large.

Marriages can end. Sometimes with a bang, sometimes they just peter out. Still, it's a shameful and embarassing thing to do, and some mated couples simply endure it, trusting eachother not to besmirch eachotehr's honour, even after the actual flames of desire and love are gone, but respect and trust remain. Sometimes however, that cannot happen, and a relation is sundered. Like the marriage itself, this is done publicly, in the open, and free to see to any Chirot. The couple to be seperated is kept far apart, with the priest in the middle, and have to shout their repudiation towards eachother. This is often a painful affair, as the nature of Chirot marriage means both are saying they are pulling their hands of the other one's actions, and whatever the other does, it's on their heads alone. Not only that, but both partners also completely distance themselves, in the eyes of the Chirot people and Sheara herself, from all honours that were gained while the couple was married. It's an emotional process. Sometimes couples break down faced with it, sometimes the process can make bitter feuds happen between former lovers. Other times it happens that only one party WANTS the split up. This is extremely humiliating to the 'dumped' party, as not doing 'your part' in such a divorce suggests that you were indeed the less honourable in the pair, and are just afraid to stand on your own. It is consider proper form to properly do your part in such a divorce, even if your heart is breaking with every word.
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Re: Bonding

Postby StormWind on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:12 am

For so long as i have been a part of this game, it has been a given fact, as far back as the first writeup i saw on the race that chirot did not marry, did not bond... so what does it say, that the one -purist- in the race, the one who has resisted any change to the race whatsoever, has written a bonding ritual? I just have to smile, shake my head, and say, welcome to the dark side Shog.
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Re: Bonding

Postby Shogeton on Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:29 pm

Do not marry? I don't remember seeing anything about it. In fact, I vaguely remember reading something about Chirot DO having bonding rituals, but that it is accepted that those things end. It hasn't come up, but even in Shogeton's background, his father and mother were bonded, only to have the bond end at some point. Of course, you've been around longer than I have. Might be I missed that one.

As for this change, I feel that it is just something that's added to the Chirot as they are, rathar than any change to their attitude and such.

Besides, I object to this Dark Side mention. It's obvious that Shogeton is the dark side from the start.

That aside, what do you think of the proposal itself?
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