Non-Denominational Bondings

Questions and suggestions relating to deities and temples

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Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby One on Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:36 pm

After a great deal of thought and years of in-character evolution, at least two confessions and many quiet whisperings .. Infernis and I would like to have our main characters publicly, legally bonded. It quickly came to our attention as we were discussing it that Infernis as a character is not affiliated with any in-game religion and would not - ever - stand seriously in front of a priest or priestess for a religious ceremony.

We'd like to propose a manner of Imperial recognition of bonding without the need for it to be related to a temple in particular.

Suggestions so far have been about the Reeve officiating or recognizing the bond .. I felt as though that was a pretty make-sense solution. I've also thought that others in Imperial employ, such as High Council nobility might be good 'advocates' for this kind of thing .. Even an Imperial secretary.

My main suggestion, though, is that I would love for there to be a kind of Justice of the Peace in the game .. a 'notary,' or officiator of such non-religious yet Empire related business. This doesn't need to just pertain to bondings, if some other need should come up for some kind of seal-given witness to activity or appointment.

Infernis and I would like to open this to discussion and are openly seeking a person who might help us with such a thing if it indeed becomes possible.

Thank you!
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Ubique on Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:21 pm

i think it's valid. some bondings are all about love and faith and dedication. and some are just 'convenience' if you will, partners who just want to be with each other above all others, but not with pomp and fuss and prayer. when ubique and elthorion got married, we had a lot of trouble because we didn't want a priest to do it. the characters worship Kirva well enough but ubi didn't want a male priest to preside over her marriage and elthorion didn't want a big deal. in the end we conceded because we had no choice. but these two chars felt very much that their marriage, while including genuine affection and trust as much as a Moriel can have, was more of a business agreement. it just made sense to have each others' backs. and a religious ceremony just didn't suit it. it felt off, know what i mean? i wish we had been able to use such a person as you're suggesting.

i can see lots of ways this person could be used. or if these abilities were even given to the reeve, that would make the reeve more valuable to characters like ubique. right now, the reeve doesn't seem to factor into any of my characters' roleplay. an increased responsibility or something might change that.

i hope you can find people to help you get this through in some way!
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Lloathe on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:13 am

Assumption: Bondings in TLI have always seemed to be about the couple and the Throne. As in the promises made by the couple, and the Throne being willing to acknowledge these.

Assumption: Stormbringer is a God. Desdaemona says so.

Thus, since these bondings are to be acknowledged by the Throne, and the Throne is occupied by a divine being, this makes non-religious weddings hard. That said, I am certainly okay with representatives of the Throne (Nobles, High-Ranking IG, Reeve) being able to bond two individuals. I am certainly okay with making this non-denominational (or as close as one gets in Belariath).

Really, I do not see why this would be a big deal.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Tehya on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:24 am

I think the Reeve would be the ideal person to marry those who are a non-religious character.

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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby CallieO on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:24 am

I think non-denominational bonding ceremonies are a fantastic idea, and there ought be people specially qualified to perform them. With so many races, religions and cultures in the game, the likelihood of two people from different religious backgrounds wanting to get married is exceptionally high.

And it doesn't seem fair that two people who love each other should have to look high and low for an alternative to a bonding ceremony that's specifically part of one religion.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Taurn on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:25 am

I agree, even for those wishing to get bonded who do worship a specific god it makes sense. Both characters may not worship the same gods and having a neutral official to conduct the ceremony would save everyone grief. Having the Reeve officiate or some other Imperial designate would make the matter binding by law.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Vysanth on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:28 am

I'm with Lloathe on the officiating part, I guess Reeve would be good, or perhaps a representative Noble (is there one?) or simply SB or L`if they so feel like it haha.

BTW, is there an IC record of Matings? like Slaves & Concubines have IC records at the ISA, where are Mates' Records kept? though that's a *facepalm* if its kept in some temple, at least it would indicate one temple as the dominant religious authority in TLI heh.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Almondus on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:29 am

Bondings can be as much about property and alliances as anything else. If there's freedom of religon IC, then non-dinominational bondings should be doable as well. I think the Reeve makes perfect sense for that, or any noble or individual that could act as a voice for the empire.

In short, bondings tend to creat more RP rather then stiffle it. If it feels good I say do it.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby kitten on Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:40 am

So if not the reeve.. it can be a noble..

so what happens when nobles are the one getting bonded?


Example: Zeph is Viceroy. Zeph is about to wed former concubine Amalthea. Both follow Redfist traditions.
With Zeph being Viceroy, can he just claim himself bonded to Amalthea?

"Me take woman and woman be known as mine."

or does he go to this Reeve..?
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby L`aquera on Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:04 am

I think Reeve is a good suggestion or a Noble. Though, I'm unsure which Nobles would care to do so. Especially if they are into their own faith. IG are not 'officials' they are Imperial Guards. Someone mentioned the Captain of a ship. I think we have the equivalent of a Judge but hes usually passing judgments for crimes against the Empire. Anyway, I'd support having someone 'not' of a religious faith doing so.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby miyuka on Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:39 am

ohhh I'll do it! We can have it in my mansion, I'll get pretty pink streamers and a really pretty dress for the bride and the groom and- oh, uhm >.> I suppose that's a bit much. I've been wondering, what's the importance of a bonding being officially recognized by the empire?
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Adonai on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:06 am

Nothing anymore, use to be for revenge and all.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Miss Magical on Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:46 am

miyuka wrote:I've been wondering, what's the importance of a bonding being officially recognized by the empire?


Yeah, I'm wondering this myself. Does it really matter? I mean, just say "Infernis is my bloody husband" three times, or something, in the presence of your maid. It's not like there's any tangible Game-Related bonuses for being married, and I have doubts as to just how much the Empire gives a flying fuck about two people calling themselves wed.

So, yeah, I mean ... really all Infernis and company is after is someone they respect to preside over the ceremony. If that's the Reeve, why not just walk up to said Reeve and be like "Hey, will preside over my wedding ceremony?" "What's in it for me?" "Threesome afterwards?" "Woohoo!" or some such. Unless there's some tangible IC benefit the Empire provides to wedded couples, then I really don't think this is a big deal at all, either OOCly or ICly.

However, I will note that I think the concept of two religious people getting a non-religious (because, really, that's what you guys are talking about. Non-denominational still implies heavy religion involved, I would think) wedding is probably absurd. I know plenty of people who term themselves some degree of religious, and none of them have gotten a wedding that approaches anything short of highly involved with their faith. Most often they just find some balance between the two, because if you love someone who follows a certain God or Goddess, chances are you, y'know, respect that faith their soon-to-be spouse is part of to some degree, certainly enough to stand through a ceremony that they would call the most important day of their life without being an ass.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby Stormbringer on Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:37 pm

In a world based upon slavery and MMR bonding does and should indicate a special degree of devotion between two characters who are prepared to take such vows in the eyes of a deity who *does* exist. On behalf of those who have and in the future, will consider it in that light, I don't intend to see that trivialised. In a fantasy world where the deities are a lot less nebulous than they are in the real world it seems unrealistic to take them so casually in gameplay.

The main argument here seems to be circular anyway... Bonding isn't important because it doesn't give any in-game benefits so it doesn't mean anything but I really, really want to get bonded without having to put up with any restrictions. If bonding isn't significant, why do you care to do it? It won't give you any property rights or any special dispensation over ooc consent or revenge or anything else.

But you still want something that's sorta bonding but not bonding? You want some way to show that you are mated to another character without having to make any commitment (in roleplay terms) beyond turning up and signing a piece of paper? Then I have two proposals:

1. I recognise the hardship of those who, for example, are dedicated followers of Shaera and who want to do a bonding before their own deity. For them I suggest that a priest of their own religion should be able to perform a legal bonding under the guidance of the Hierach, who is a general religious overseer. These ceremonies will carry equal weight with a bonding performed in one of the five major temples.

2. The others, those who want a non-bonding bonding. Concubine doesn't do it for you? Then have one. The Reeve is the one to do such a task and should make a charge of a 100Mhl for doing it. Half goes to the Reeve and half to the Empire. But it will not be called a bonding, that remains a religious ceremony. Instead call it a handfasting. Such a union will carry no weight at all in being able to call on the ISA or IG for assistance if things go wrong and can be terminated by another visit to the Reeve and payment of another 100Mhl to break the handfasting.
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Re: Non-Denominational Bondings

Postby kitten on Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:07 pm

Miss Magical wrote:
miyuka wrote:I've been wondering, what's the importance of a bonding being officially recognized by the empire?


Yeah, I'm wondering this myself. Does it really matter? I mean, just say "Infernis is my bloody husband" three times, or something, in the presence of your maid. It's not like there's any tangible Game-Related bonuses for being married, and I have doubts as to just how much the Empire gives a flying fuck about two people calling themselves wed.


:oops: Well.. for the story tellers in some of us.. it means quite a bit towards our building of our characters beyond the normal UNF UNF of TLI.

Since not every character wants to be slave or concubine to recieve any -legal- protection, there are those that fall into the category of Mate, Spouse, Wife, and/or Bonded Life Partner.

:idea: Now.. these folks would like to not only be recognized as such, but they want the -clause- that goes with it. Meaning they have some sort of -legal- right to be extremely pissed if someone wants to come along and SURPRISE sex with thier "spouse". To do so in such a place as TLI without a he-said she-said arguement that kills such a storyline, etc.. it's always nice to have a tiny tiny piece of MB post to -link- to as -proof- of such a decree.

Otherwise, just claiming such things, becomes pointless and there is more OOC drama than needs to be. [-X


So in short summary, we want that little piece of proof to cover our backs. because its the ONLY protection we get. [-o<

Um.. *hides exits stage right even* :arrow:
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