Concubines

Questions and suggestions relating to the playing of individual characters rather than the game world

Moderators: Stormbringer, Ehlanna

Re: Concubines

Postby Thria on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:05 am

Kaytoo wrote:Why concubines came about?

IMLTHO because some/all of the higher nobles including Stormbringer decided they had certain slaves they'd like to accord a certain amount of privilege and perhaps courtesy and even in rare cases power (screw with me I'll tell my lover/owner)....Yet to not imply all slaves had these rights, generated a new station. One slaves might aspire to yet were not until granted it.

Sometimes granting hope is as powerful as an iron fist.

K2


Except you've just described Tu Turandil. I dont think the Imperial Throne would be encouraging slaves to aspire to become free persons.. even if for the sole reason that they lose money that way :D
Thria
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Stormbringer on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:32 am

Anyway. Events.... an internal one.... mmh... okay, but as you yourself have pointed out numerous times, SB, it's an Imperial Dictatorship. And StormBringer [the CHARACTER] hasn't (at least, to my recollection) really shown much inclination to listen to the people. So it... would really take an internal event on a level of activity that hasn't been seen before in this game (again, to my recollection) to warrant the Imperial Throne paying attention to it...at least, thats my opinion of the logic of the situation. We've never really seen eye-to-eye on logic before.


Well obviously if I'm using logic and you disagree, then logically speaking you must be illogical :D

Well, we just agree to disagree on that one since we see things from a different perspective. Or we don't agree to disagree and the outcome is the same anyway but with more name-calling along the way.

Anyway the need to introduce concubine rather than just assume it always existed is to preserve the history of characters who would have made different choices if they were available at the time. Personally I prefer to see an external event since the only internal ones I can see as viable are a) the emperor has a lightbulb moment or b) a slave revolt. The lightbulb isn't much of an event, just a single post on the board and a decree pretty much covers it. The slave revolt I can't see having the desired effect. Can't see a society like that one doing more than rounding up the rebellious slaves and shipping them off to work in the mithril mines whilst replacing them with a new batch.

But since it does come down to an imperial decree then either we just do the one post thing or it gets wrapped up in something shiny. Traveller's tales from a distant land where they do things differently would be one way, a noble's petition another, or something involving the deities a third. They may all just be window dressing but if it needs to be done IC then something a bit more than SB shouting 'eureka' would be nice.
Image
--------------
Charm’d magic casements, opening on the foam
Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn

(John Keats)
Check your baggage at the door and bring some magic through your
window onto the world of Belariath
User avatar
Stormbringer
High Council
High Council
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:02 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Thria on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:34 am

I have this image in my head now... of SB leaping out of a bathtub, shouting Eureka and running off towards thr throne room... while the slave that had been kneeling beside it wipes their face of the water that just splashed all over them.
Thria
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Kerianna on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:07 pm

Thria wrote:I have this image in my head now... of SB leaping out of a bathtub, shouting Eureka and running off towards thr throne room... while the slave that had been kneeling beside it wipes their face of the water that just splashed all over them.


*snickers* I was thinking more the "light bulllllb" thing from Despicable Me, but that works too.
User avatar
Kerianna
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:13 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Tawny on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:27 pm

What is needed here is a quest. Yep a quest. I would be willing to run one. Already got a good idea for it. I would have to run it after the slave for a day auction but that is only ten days away now. If the idea of a quest is something that is acceptable to stormbringer and everyone else I will do a write up on it and submit it if that is needed. Just an idea for a way to get the concubine concept into the game.
Image
User avatar
Tawny
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:16 am

Re: Concubines

Postby Kaytoo on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:36 pm

Thria wrote:
Kaytoo wrote:Why concubines came about?

IMLTHO because some/all of the higher nobles including Stormbringer decided they had certain slaves they'd like to accord a certain amount of privilege and perhaps courtesy and even in rare cases power (screw with me I'll tell my lover/owner)....Yet to not imply all slaves had these rights, generated a new station. One slaves might aspire to yet were not until granted it.

Sometimes granting hope is as powerful as an iron fist.

K2


Except you've just described Tu Turadil. I dont think the Imperial Throne would be encouraging slaves to aspire to become free persons.. even if for the sole reason that they lose money that way :D


Umm nope.... http://belariath.com/php/slave/tt.php

Just because a slave is a great showpiece and roll in the hay does not make them Tu Turadil......and the quickest way to insure a slave revolt is to say there is no hope of working your way out of base slave type servitude....DOesn't mean it ever has to happen for any...Yet the carrot is there. The throne and slave owners are really left with two options......Crush their will and let slaves know that anything other then this means suffering for them (even if free), or offer some sort of potential escalation in the slavery rankings.

Slaves becoming Tu Turadil are simply exceptional slaves...In most cases I'd imagine simply grovelling better then the norm (though clearly much more to it and a path of devotion TO slavery)...OTOH, Concubine would seem to most outsiders as "virtually" free. Most likely much less slave like in actions and attitude, yet when push comes to shove still a slave.

K2
"Call me savage, and you're only telling me how much you have forgotten of the natural world, and the nature of minds."
Image
User avatar
Kaytoo
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:37 pm
Location: Dachvst among da Ut'Kref Savages

Re: Concubines

Postby Sakkara on Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:01 am

From what ive seen the oh so elite slave class is nothing more than a popularity contest, never liked the idea and still to this day think it should be done away with, anyhow...

Reason for concubines, SB went with his army into a arabian style desert kingdom (prince of persia, aladdin) like what he saw in the harem, and after buring the kingdom to the ground stole some ideas.
User avatar
Sakkara
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:25 pm
Location: On her knees.

Re: Concubines

Postby Stormbringer on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:47 am

Sakkara wrote:From what ive seen the oh so elite slave class is nothing more than a popularity contest, never liked the idea and still to this day think it should be done away with, anyhow...

Reason for concubines, SB went with his army into a arabian style desert kingdom (prince of persia, aladdin) like what he saw in the harem, and after buring the kingdom to the ground stole some ideas.


TT was introduced for OOC reasons with the purpose of highlighting examples of slave play which fitted the idea of how slaves were supposed to act IC. Nothing to do with popularity, simply that it is easier to teach by example. No sense that they were treated better than standard slaves either. No more than a way to say 'if you want to learn how to play a slave that fits in nicely with Belariathian society, watch these examples'.

Concubine could be looked on as a step up for a slave to aspire towards and I'm sure enterprising owners will latch onto that as a way to enhance their training of certain slaves. Following the initial shake-up though I would anticipate more concubines being created from free characters than from promoted slaves.

Some sort of quest into the southern deserts would be the obvious way to go in getting the concept of concubine. It would also fit in with long term plans I've had to send an expedition in that direction to scout out the area for opportunities to extend the southern borders of the empire and also to make a significant discovery along the way.
Image
--------------
Charm’d magic casements, opening on the foam
Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn

(John Keats)
Check your baggage at the door and bring some magic through your
window onto the world of Belariath
User avatar
Stormbringer
High Council
High Council
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:02 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Thria on Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:55 pm

TT have kind of become like an oscar award. You get a week of notice during the award ceremony, and a line on your bio, but beyond that nothing. I've read the list of them, but...I think what the problem there is, is that 'ideal' is a subjective estimation... and of the 9 current TT: Have never met 4; have not seen enough of 2 to form a solid opinion; and 2 i feel don't exemplify slavery very well in the interactions i've had. So... yeah. not much i pay attention to, sadly.

I'm not sure how it behooves owners to want their slaves to strive to become free. To me that seems counterintuitive to owning a slave in the first place. (The initial transition is an exception; the new concept of concubines would allow for a re-alignment in the vein of 'well you're REALLY a Concubine, just couldn't have said it before.')
Thria
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby miyuka on Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:26 pm

wait, concubines are going to count as free people?
User avatar
miyuka
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5115
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Georgia USA baby!

Re: Concubines

Postby kitten on Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:59 pm

con·cu·bine
/ˈkɒŋkyəˌbaɪn, ˈkɒn-/
[kong-kyuh-bahyn, kon-]
–noun
1. a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.
2. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank.
3. (esp. formerly in societies) a woman residing in a harem and kept, as by a sultan, for sexual purposes.


As I understand it, not the wife (most important), not the slave (less important). That means she is there of her own free will, thusly, free person.
Just to define the word.
Jonie/Amalthea/Zinnia
User avatar
kitten
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:30 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Thria on Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:01 pm

miyuka wrote:wait, concubines are going to count as free people?

As the concept has been defined, concubines are free people in all respects of accountability.
They are property (and as such cant terminate their own status, nor own property themselves).

I suppose the proper phrase in my previous post should have been 'strive to become more free'.
Thria
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Sakkara on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:18 pm

Stormbringer wrote:
TT was introduced for OOC reasons with the purpose of highlighting examples of slave play which fitted the idea of how slaves were supposed to act IC. Nothing to do with popularity, simply that it is easier to teach by example. No sense that they were treated better than standard slaves either. No more than a way to say 'if you want to learn how to play a slave that fits in nicely with Belariathian society, watch these examples'.


From what I understand, to be a TT you have to act in a certain way, impress certain people and then hope you pass a vote...sounds very much like a popularity contest to me. Of course Im probably wrong.
User avatar
Sakkara
Initiate
Initiate
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:25 pm
Location: On her knees.

Re: Concubines

Postby Thria on Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:26 pm

Sakkara wrote:From what I understand, to be a TT you have to act in a certain way, impress certain people and then hope you pass a vote...sounds very much like a popularity contest to me. Of course Im probably wrong.

Popularity will always be part of it. So will OOC feelings. That's just the way it goes.
Thria
Adept
Adept
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Concubines

Postby Stormbringer on Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:04 am

kitten wrote:
con·cu·bine
/ˈkɒŋkyəˌbaɪn, ˈkɒn-/
[kong-kyuh-bahyn, kon-]
–noun
1. a woman who cohabits with a man to whom she is not legally married, esp. one regarded as socially or sexually subservient; mistress.
2. (among polygamous peoples) a secondary wife, usually of inferior rank.
3. (esp. formerly in societies) a woman residing in a harem and kept, as by a sultan, for sexual purposes.


As I understand it, not the wife (most important), not the slave (less important). That means she is there of her own free will, thusly, free person.
Just to define the word.
Jonie/Amalthea/Zinnia


Concubines enter into that status freely (or by being tricked or coerced if anyone roleplays inventively) rather than being captured. Once tagged though, they are property.
Image
--------------
Charm’d magic casements, opening on the foam
Of perilous seas, in faery lands forlorn

(John Keats)
Check your baggage at the door and bring some magic through your
window onto the world of Belariath
User avatar
Stormbringer
High Council
High Council
 
Posts: 3270
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Characters

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests