Relationships 2

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Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:45 pm

I've taken account of a lot of what has been said and created a web page at

http://belariath.com/empire/relationships.html

This is intended to be more of an overview than anything and will eventually form a part of a new section I want to add to the site, covering the social aspects of life in this world. Something that will make it easier for newer players to get a feel for the world without needing to read the entire web site and something that also reminds more established players of how their characters would be expected to think and act too.

It's all very well to play the rebel against convention in order to stand out but people should at least have a fairly clear idea what those conventions are, to have some sort of cohesive baseline.

So while this page covers the important aspects of different types of relationships, more of the technical details should be looked to be added to the sections relating to temples and the ISA.

With that in mind I see the following needs to be done:

Ideally, in providing background information to players the web site would gain:

1. A section on the social norms of life on Belariath, which gives players a quick reference to what is expected not only relating to slaves in public but also to concepts such as personal honor, with this document forming one of those pages

2. Kaytoo's work within the slavery topic suggested to me the basis of a personal contract between a slave and owner rather than imperial policy. Perhaps a pick and match set of expectations that players can use IC or OOC to make sure they understand the direction and limitations of their future roleplay when a character is collared. The resulting contract between them could be used both to avoid any misunderstandings about expectations and also as a hint guide to those who are somewhat inexperienced and would like some sense of direction in what training they should undertake.

In procedural aspects the following needs to be achieved:

1. ISA pages and forums will need editing to cover concubine registration and decollaring

2. Ehl to work on the database aspects needed to bring in the new recording of concubines as she is able

3. Tawny's work to be commented and ratified into an addition to the ISA pages as a definitive list of actions by slaves which will attract imperial response to both slave and owner.

4. Ideas for a quest to introduce concubinage to run whilst the changes are being made

5. Once everything is in place, an intial grace period when existing slaves can change to concubine if they wish and of course, new concubines can be created.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Kaytoo on Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:42 pm

Just a quick personal thought (and thanks for the notice in your post)....

I'm under the opinion that it should be expected that various races, cultures, clans and so on would have their own distinct sets of values (especially in that the empire is so young)....Yet that the Emperor and hence the Ilfrinor Empire would have their own opinions which they fully intend to implament Empire wide.

Meaning....Stormbringer could either lay down an edict demanding immediate compliance (which naturally SHOULD result in cultural dissent), or could state an Imperial decree wherein his "firm" viewpoints are voiced and expected to be abided by within his empire (naturally that also meaning within all those cultures annexed). Yet, the softer version not seeming so aggressive the intention being in mixed area's such as Nanthalion it would be treated as law, and though actually law over other more defind area's and groups (lets say the Moragan Hammer clan and lands), it would be anticipated that eventually just like the crown language would be integrated into that culture eventually becoming their standard as well.....Over say a couple generations.

In that way IC, softer conflicts between cultures would still be often encountered inspiring r/p and thus allowing some creative flexibility...Yet also enact these new virtues or laws if you will in what we find to be our current channels as "the" viewpoints. In the end putting it all in place without wholely discarding previous/current individaul viewpoints.

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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:30 pm

Naturally each race has its own section including clans and that does a lot to define how someone will play that race. So this is not intended to replace that individuality but more to suggest the ways that those living within the heart of the empire will tend towards a common set of actions in broad outline.

We already do a similar sort of thing with characters, such as saying that just because someone is a barbarian is not enough cause on its own to go round beating up everyone who even looks at them. SO this is a similar set of social conventions that may not be all laws but still modulate the behavior.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Thria on Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:23 pm

Stormbringer wrote:It's all very well to play the rebel against convention in order to stand out but people should at least have a fairly clear idea what those conventions are, to have some sort of cohesive baseline.


Now all we need is for it to actually BE the baseline. As has often been said - if 70% of the game are 'playing the rebel'... are they really the rebel? (I know, you cant change people, but... just one of those little frustrations that those of us who actually do accept that worldview have to put up with. </ventmodeoff>

2. Kaytoo's work within the slavery topic suggested to me the basis of a personal contract between a slave and owner rather than imperial policy. Perhaps a pick and match set of expectations that players can use IC or OOC to make sure they understand the direction and limitations of their future roleplay when a character is collared. The resulting contract between them could be used both to avoid any misunderstandings about expectations and also as a hint guide to those who are somewhat inexperienced and would like some sense of direction in what training they should undertake.

As an aside, I'd still like to have an OOC... 'can/cant/will/wont do' sort of database thing. I know it blurs the OOC/IC line a little bit, but I would argue it would both reduce the number of "No i dont want that" and increase the number of "Hey I see you're open to...". Perhaps a topic for another thread.

1. ISA pages and forums will need editing to cover concubine registration and decollaring
2. Ehl to work on the database aspects needed to bring in the new recording of concubines as she is able
3. Tawny's work to be commented and ratified into an addition to the ISA pages as a definitive list of actions by slaves which will attract imperial response to both slave and owner.
4. Ideas for a quest to introduce concubinage to run whilst the changes are being made
5. Once everything is in place, an intial grace period when existing slaves can change to concubine if they wish and of course, new concubines can be created.

6. Additional expansion of shop items to accomodate "Concubine Markings"? (Assuming a non-collar/non-tattoo marking)

Something that stuck out at me on the page... (and yes it's a bit of a nitpick, but thats what i do)
There is no required religious ceremony to take a concubine, it is a purely temporal relationship like slavery but unlike slavery,

Temporal? Temporal means of relating to time (or the temple).... i'm confused by this word (and thus would advise against using it for explaining to a new player)
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby lyllamarie on Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:36 pm

I have offers from those willing to help with the Quest/SL aspect, and we have hedged into southern territories before and have future plans of sending stronger presence -- so as to that I think we can organize something to accommodate.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:28 am

Now all we need is for it to actually BE the baseline. As has often been said - if 70% of the game are 'playing the rebel'... are they really the rebel? (I know, you cant change people, but... just one of those little frustrations that those of us who actually do accept that worldview have to put up with. </ventmodeoff>


Why can't I be different and original, just like everybody else.... Yes I hear you and having a single section on the accepted conventions of life on Belariath is aimed at helping provide that baseline and hopefully help new players gain a feel for the world without needing to read the entire site.

As an aside, I'd still like to have an OOC... 'can/cant/will/wont do' sort of database thing. I know it blurs the OOC/IC line a little bit, but I would argue it would both reduce the number of "No i dont want that" and increase the number of "Hey I see you're open to...". Perhaps a topic for another thread.


I assume you mean the rape tags redux? I can't say it would get my knickers in a twist if people put such things in their notes or descr. What I don't want to do is institutionalise it by giving official recognition to such notes or by any hint that those notes can override the basic rules of implied and explicit consent.

6. Additional expansion of shop items to accomodate "Concubine Markings"? (Assuming a non-collar/non-tattoo marking)


I assume the GS is able to add new lines to meet demand without me needing to whip anyone there except purely for fun.

Temporal? Temporal means of relating to time (or the temple).... i'm confused by this word (and thus would advise against using it for explaining to a new player)


Temporal as in the opposite of spiritual - relating to worldly affairs. Which has an implicit nod towards time in that spiritual matters are taken to be eternal whilst material ones are not. But it can be substituted with 'mundane' so long as that doesn't cause equal confusion between a similar definition of mundane as relating to worldly matters and its other definition of ordinary or banal.

I have offers from those willing to help with the Quest/SL aspect, and we have hedged into southern territories before and have future plans of sending stronger presence -- so as to that I think we can organize something to accommodate.


Tawny has a quest planning underway too, so it would probably help if you got together before she finishes that and hands it to the group.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Kerianna on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:28 pm

Temporal fits to me because I know that it's often used to make the distinction between worldly and otherworldly affairs...but, if you want to change the word to avoid confusion with other people, you could try secular.

Do we have an eta for when this is all going into effect? I assume it's pretty soon, with a new messageboard for it up and all, but I'm curious...
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:17 am

Secular is a nice word too.

The main components needed are a quest and the database adjustments. Well I'm not about to hassle Ehl to work faster with all she does.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Kerianna on Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:34 pm

Ah, ok. Yeah, definitely don't want to rush her (or anyone else), I was just curious. ^_^
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:54 am

Something that struck me as funny...

The upper chamber of the British parliament, the House of Lords comprises two groups, the Lords Temporal and the Lords Spiritual. The Lords Spiritual comprises bishops and high clergy, the Lords Temporal are the secular (thanks Kerianna) members of the Lords, the peers.

So using Thria's definition applied there a more modern equivalent would have the Lords Temporal as being called Time Lords, which would presumably make the upper chamber of the parliament building the Tardis

:lol:
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Thria on Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:57 pm

Lol. Only if it's bigger on the inside.

All roots of Temporal are 'time'; if i was going to try and use a fancy word to mean 'earthly' or 'physical'... i'd use corporeal.
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Re: Relationships 2

Postby Stormbringer on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:21 pm

Of course corporeal has at its root 'corp...' which refers primarily to the body Ie corpse, corpus) but don't let that stand in your way :P
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