The OOC Room

[Adonai]

In truth, jessyka, I have never heard of those places >.> in the 8 years i have been on this server. Anyway, all the talk of adults is to try to prove this stuff is childish on our part, not the ops, i understand their reasons? Do I agree? Hell no, but that is me, I am not an op, and most likely will be going on a break.

Yesterday i did say something others took as drama inducing and i do apologize to those, it wasn't meant that way, but seriously, we do need to find a way to get people in a channel, honestly, ehl; i view people would mainly just idle in the ooc tli channel and talk in the other one. Because in truth if it is game related? I barely see anything other than offering help, once in a blue moon.

[L`aquera]

Kit finally hit the nail on the head. Something others were missing.

Also, there is no "Handle the OOC drama" In our handbook. I know, I wrote it. It, nowhere, says, in my manual. "Deal with ooc drama from the ooc room." I've no idea where that misconception came from. But now I bury thee.

Be all end all. I put down no ones thoughts thus far. What I do tell you, is the reality from the 'ops' mentality. I do not speak for them all. Nor will I. But I didn't just step into this decision. No player, asked me, to remove the OOC and even if they had? I would have laughed at them. I don't make choices lightly, I did not approach SB with "Can we close down the OOC?"

I did not delete Adonais helpful newbie thread. I am not the one behind the blurry photos of Nessie. I am not the one that made all those bigfoot tracks.

I am not the boogie man. Shame that, I might have been successful!

I'm a normal person, whose had enough of watching the Ops forum fill up with a bunch of nonsense and foolishness and I'm tired of feeding into it.

This is not your fault that I'm tired of it. Nor is it my own. This is what happens when a small group of people field things like "He called me stupid." "He was being a troll." "She won't talk to me now over something stupid and told so n so...." "I won't play with so n so and so n so is talking bad about me!"...... None of my ops, nor me, signed up to field these things. Yet these very things, were going on day in and day out. And we handled them. We were happy to help you, happy to champion you, happy to protect you. Happy to hug you and care about your emotions and take your abuse.

We turned into doormats. Accepting this should just be part of the job. It is not. Part. Of the. Job. Like it or not. Your drama, is not our job to handle. But we were doing it. And, all these little notes of hate you are leaving, is the thanks we get for it. We busted our asses for all of you, and the first chance you get, like naughty children, is to continue treading on our good will. And our good will, broke. Surprise!

No, it certainly was not all of you, I am not signaling 'all' of you out. MANY of you were a joy to be around. A plethora of fun and sweetness and I would have bled for those people and still would.

I think Tawny had it right in one post. We cared to much. It bit us in the ass. So now I had to turn and face the real issue of what to do. I no longer have the solution. But I did know, leaving the place up and running wasn't such a grand idea. And not just for me. Many of you have stated you didn't see the drama. I'm here to statisticly tell you, it was there. In droves. You didn't have to be privy to it. Many of you knew it was there that were involved. Many of you refuse to admit it. I don't mind. The reason you didn't know more then 70% of it wasn't there, was because we have to keep it to ourselves. YOUR privacy, was upheld. Yes. YOUR privacy. And for those that got into trouble? Of course they came back and acted as if nothing ever happened, and of course they told you it was all the Ops fault. Because they knew, we wouldn't say anything otherwise.

We upheld our part. To the point where several were severely annoyed with us because of it.

Well.. I made a decision based on all these things. I took to Stormbringer and the decision was made.

You all have very good opinions, it isn't my right to tell you if you are right or wrong. I'm simply telling you how it is from this end. Whether you like it, or not. I've been very upfront and honest and yes, I'm the token bitch op. But I'll tell you what. If anyone ever came to me with a real issue, I protected them with everything I had and made it right. Because, I cared. My ops, did this, because they cared. And I will no longer put up with watching them or me or SB and Ehl be trampled on. This was it. This was my move to wake you up.

In the end however, when I see these OOC channels opening and see the logs of whats going on, hear what is really being said? I wish them well. But there is no longer drama in TLI channels. And I would rather see happy RP people and help them, then see that drama come back. So there is no ultimatum folks. I'm not here to slap your hands and say "BAD PLAYER! BAD!" any longer. I'm very content to see people Role Playing, in far greater numbers then I've seen in four days previous when the OOC was closed.

[miyuka]

I wasn't going to add anymore to this thread cause I'm like F*** it at this point, one way or the other. As long as people are RPing and having fun that's all I truly care about in the long run. I did want to chime in on what L just said in the above post. For those that don't see the drama, you'd be surprised at how much it is and how incredibly petty it has been with some people. But like she said we kept it private so in a sense for those that didn't really see it, that pretty much means things were working as intended.

One other thing I'd like to touch on is L's comment about being the bitch OP. Believe me when I say, some of you would be very surprised at how much she was the one backing some of the players when they screwed up and the OPs were coming down on them. A lot of those players who had their foot in the sand and was sinking quickly and was mad at L, it was probably her whom was there to keep the rest of us from tossing you out on your ass.

So, lets get passed this and get back to having fun RPing. OOC room or no OOC room...we're here to have fun last I checked.

[MidniteFym]

L' I have to say you last post was very well put. There were some things that I will admit before that post I was a little unclear on but that post was quite helpful to me in understanding the decision you made. Do I want the ooc back yes i will admit it. I do think there are alot of good things that come from the channel. I also want to say that the ops do a hard job. I have done it in other channels and it isn't easy. You all put in alot of hard work for little very little reward. I dont really have much to add to this discussion because I feel anything I could say has been said a thousand times over so I wont add to it but I did want to say I that L' your last post was heartfelt and appreciated and the ops and others that work on the dev teams an such a big thank you for all your hard work I know we can all come together (players and ops) and keep this community we all love strong and going for many more years.

[Ishtori]

I belive I see the OPs side a little bit better now that L explained how things were going behind the scenes and yes I can't possibly know just how much was going behind. Sometimes I saw drama going in the OOC, not too often though and rarelly to big porportions but yes I can't say I know what goes behind the boards or in PMs.

I will also agree agree with L on one thing, the OPs are not psyquiatrists (yeah I probably messed the word but ignore that) though that being said, the moment you are a channel operator, dealing with drama will always come with the territory whether or not it's writen in the OP book. Granted what I now know OPs were doing is beyond what should be done. Like I said I've been an OP in channels and part of development teams for other games and we had to deal with dramas. Drama is handled like this wherever I went. You get the involved parties into a channel (let's say TLI OPs) and you are not there to listen to them bicker about things. You just need to tell them the following. You can try and talk things out in a civilised manner and try to get over it or you may not talk at all, however you'll stop with the drama in the OOC and you will not bother any OPs with the drama. From this point on the only thing that will transpire to the boards is what happened and not to be solved by people looking at it and go to them trying to make things out, it's simply a report to know if they should be booted for (insert amount of time here), for continuing to cause drama. This way you deal with drama, you don't have to be psyquiatrist (and hell I worked for a mobile phone company, I know just how much of a pain in the ass it is to listen to things and simply not being able to treat people they way they should be at times) and things will in time become better as people simply learn that creating drama will only get their ass kicked on the street.

Closing the OOC room is not the solution, it's simply not caring anymore and it only helps breaking the community apart. You've said yourself, this happened before and I ask you. Did it solve anything? No, it didn't! Why would it solve anything now?! The only thing that will happen is that you don't have to hear about it as often now at the cost of having the game lose a very important aspect, at the cost of losing many players. To me it costs me a lot to leave the game because of this. I've been here for 7 years, I've put a lot of my time into developing my characters only to leave now, but quite frankly I'd rather leave than have to go on without the OOC cause the community of this game is a very important part of the game to me. Let me also tell you that there was no game that managed to keep me around for even half as long. That is how powerful the comunity of this game is!

I'm sure I also told you this in the past L, when you gave warnings in the foruns that you were pissed off with the drama and if things didn't get better, people would get booted. That's what should be done. If people can't work things out and can't play civil, kick them one their asses however many times it's needed for however much time is needed. The OPs never ended up following through with this and that is the root of the problem, not having an OOC room.

The only thing we ask is not to close the OOC and break apart the comunity, it only hurts the game. Take care of the problem at it's root and I'm sure it will only take a little bit of time until you see a cleaner OOC room without much drama going on.

[Tawny]

I would like to clarify something if I may. When I say I worry about the game its because the OOC is the place people go to when they frist come to join the game as a new player. They are going to find an empty room except for the Ops. Kinda makes the game seem unfriendly to anyone who has no idea what has happened. Those who are players now, We know what happened and I think most will stay through thick and thin, I know I will. I love the game and I like the players and the OPs. Most of them anyway course I dont know about the ban of Dragons that keep attacking. But seriously That is what I have been meaning about the game dying out. Without new players in time those of us playing will either get to old to type or as some players do they will just move on for reasons beyond this problem. I understand the reasoning, I understand the feeling of being fed up with the stress and drama. As I said I have been an Op and I have ran my own game before. I dont blame the Ops for having taken their fill. I just hope maybe there is a different answer that the Ops can find. But heck taking a break away from it all is something you all have earned for sure.
Just wanted to clarify my words and their meaning.

[Gerult]

I've only been here for a limited time. I do not know much of what goes on behind the scenes. I do not know the personal atrocities the members of this community have had to go through in the OOC room. I do not know the psychological damage the OPs have had to suffer getting through all of the bickering going on in OOC. I also don't know what the fuck the big deal is. Warn/Kick/Ban. Three options that should have been expended before the OOC was closed like this.
Honestly, I don't understand what the major malfunction here is, but in my PERSONAL OPINION this is fucking ridiculous. There is no excuse for it, and I will be holding a grudge against every single post after this one that is complaining about OOC prior to the ban.

[Kir^Trelander]

Well shit.

I +1 the disagreement with the closing, without adding any superficial analogies or deep thoughts on the matter or theorizing on the possible affects and adversities. Ops are well aware of how dependent some of us were on the OOC room.

I +1 the Ops saying that this indeed their game, and can do with it as they wish to see what they want.

I -1 the comments made in faulty attempts to persuade me that there will be no ill effects as a result, and I -1 all comments made saying that there will be nothing but ill effects.

In essence? Meh.

I'll see you when I see you, if I see you.

[Stormbringer]

I haven't commented here until now because I've been too busy dealing with life to visit. And I have to say, I'm not planning to read all six pages of arguments for and against. The OOC room was closed to gain your attention because nothing else did, and in that sense it has obviously worked.

Now that we have your attention, perhaps you will heed the message instead of focusing on the envelope it was delivered in?

When we started TLI over ten years ago, we (all 14 of us) aimed to create a mature, adult roleplaying environment based in a fantasy world. We didn't aim to create it in a bid to become popular or have dozens or hundreds of players. We built it for the type of people who played in IRC at that time - who were, by and large, people who had joined the internet from table top RPG's or text based computer RPG's. I personally came from a background of at least three years in IRC fantasy rape channels. As did most of the others.

If you like, we were all hardcore internet users at a time when the majority of the population didn't know it existed or didn't care, and Bill Gates was telling the world that the web would never have a commercial future. So what? Who cares about the reminiscences of some old guy eh? The internet has moved on, it's there for anyone who can get online, which is almost everyone.

Yes, it has. And not always for the best. Because when we started, players understood the basic things such as the difference between player and character, and the need to maintain a degree of privacy for their online life, and the fact that not everyone online was always strictly honest. There was no facebook and twitter and people didn't go around spilling the entire history of their lives, along with all their intimate details, to anyone who happened along.

Of course it wasn't all sunshine and sitting around a virtual campfire holding hands. There were good people and there were bad people. There were predators and there were victims. And as a result the second law of any sexually explicit roleplaying channel was to protect the visitors so they could play out their fantasies in safety. So it was with TLI and it has continued to be the second law of our channels all this time.

However, at the time we started, the internet had yet to become a haven for the emotionally retarded, the underage teenager, the fragile butterfly and the attention seeker. At that time, if the Ops had to deal with a problem, it was on a serious level where we considered whether to pass information to the FBI more than once. It wasn't some fake suicide threat from an attention-whore who didn't get their own way. It wasn't some immature ass arguing for two hours because they got a 24 hour ban based on them acting like an immature ass. It wasn't someone who should have been receiving psychiatric care but instead preferred to come online and exacerbate their problems by bleeding over anyone who showed them sympathy, and it certainly wasn't the school playground antics of the 'boo hoo xxxx won't pway wiv me bacause I wouldn't share my sweeties with him' type.

But despite endless warnings, TLI has attracted those sorts of players and the Ops have been expected to spend much of their online time dealing with the trivial as well as the serious. It can't continue to grind them down forever. And it won't.

The OOC room was not closed because of those who hang around swapping links to 'hilarious' videos. It wasn't closed because of the pathetic boob-squeezing pseudo-roleplay of the immature. It was closed because of it being a haven for the bitchy, the vicious, the emotionally unbalanced and the passive-aggressive who switch between being vampire and victim with the same ease that Tarzan swings through the jungle.

Will the OOC reopen? Quite likely so. Will the Ops continue to be approachable? Yes, you know where to find them. Will they continue to protect those who have real problems with other players within, or as a result of, TLI? Hell yes! I will not permit a channel to exist in which players who are at risk are not protected. Will the Ops continue to listen to trivial complaints and arguments, backbiting and insults, petty prejudices and immature actions? Nope. Sorry. Those days are over. The Ops will help those who need help, just as they have done since we started all those years ago. But they are not your mommy and you are not a kid any more. You are an adult who can handle yourself in a sexually explicit roleplaying channel, maintaining a dividing line between yourself and your character and with enough awareness to realise that the internet is a place of smoke and mirrors. Or you are someone who is not ready to play with adults.

[Adrienna]

I have read each and everyone's posts on here --took me quite some time. I have to say I agree with some, disagree with others. Some were really heartfelt. However, it most certainly has opened my eyes. And I have come to the conclusion that whatever happens, will happen. And I will respect the decision. Thank you to the Ops for everything they have done, -everything-. I have said some things myself, and I would like to appologize for that. From now on, however, I will not involve myself. I'm here to have fun. And I really do hope that all of us can enforce the rules of our most favourite Roleplay channel --it is my first ever, and I love the place. Adore you all. And let's stop with the snide comments, back-talking and just in general spoiling the fun for others. We will be fine. We will get through this.

XXX

[Vladimir]

I miss the ooc for the simple stuff. Being able to toss out a dice-roll without spamming the IC with numbers or coercing those involved to join #tli-quest, being able to take note of most everyone who's on, and most of all having a monitored ooc environment where discussions I want nothing to do with are actually 'policed'.

I have to admit though, ever since this nonsense occurred and the ooc went down, people have been playing more. Like, a lot more. Over a dozen people IC at 2 am Monday morning kind of more. I don't know whether it's a sort of 'panic' response where folks feel a need to get play before the getting's no good, or if folks were honestly that 'held up' from free, open play by the ooc before... But I like the change. I like it a lot.

A shout out to Naidra as well (omg, I hope it's Naidra, but my brain is a bit fuzzy ATM) for her vigilance in maintaining an ooc channel for us while all this is going down. She, and those who've been helping her, have given us all as safe and friendly an environment as possible without the help of Desdaemona to filter out 'undesirables'. I realize theres other ooc rooms out there ATM, but not to be advertised has rapidly become the favorite, and I can understand why.

Kudos.

[Soreni]

I know I don't rp here constantly nor do I spend much time on the Forum but The Lonely Inn has always been a fun place that I like to come and do some rp in for one reason or another. Honestly I don't know what sparked this huge long thing and closed down the ooc room. What I do know is that it is about 100 times harder for me to find some one to rp with now because the ooc is gone and with no one to rp with it kind of defeats the point of having an rpg. As I write this I sit here looking at all the TLI rooms and I see maybe 6 or 7 people on. Not even the common people are that I am use to seeing are in any of the rooms. I respect the ops and their decisions to do as they see fit, but I am over all unhappy with the results of these decisions. Anyways that is just my 2 cents.

[Raphaelwyn]

What I do know is that it is about 100 times harder for me to find some one to rp with now because the ooc is gone and with no one to rp with it kind of defeats the point of having an rpg.

*Cough wheeze* do like we did in the old day sonny we went ic and winged it *cough hack* In all seriousness raph was really clumsy when she arrived and it lead to all sorts of rp but i didn't always poke someone in ooc and ask for rp i went IC and made my own i realise theres not always an inn full to work with and sometimes it's dead but there is no harm in going IC and saying HI! if people are in public in the inn then they are subject to outside factors like someone entering and saying hello

[Ishtori]

Most of the times howevr, people are not going to go IC to just get monologe which is what happens most of the times you go IC without asking someone for RP.

[Adonai]

While I agree a bit with both the above posters, the second part is one of the things that have made tli such a bad place, it should never get so bad that you have to wait and beg for rp, no other channel does that, people need to start going back ic and acting and REACTING to other peoples post.