Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

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Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Dante_Ambrogio on Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:45 pm

Premise

Okay; so I have been playing Mages, Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, and the various multitudes of other Magic Using classes for most of my life at different Tabletops and in different Roleplaying settings from the early days of my childhood where I was first introduced to Second Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons all the way up to current day where I Game Master for 5th Edition Shadowrun, The Legend of the Five Rings, both 5th and 3.5e D&D, and of course I am active here in TLI and a couple other small online RPs.

A common thread among many of them is that spellcasters can fine tune any of their spells (and I have always followed this rule because it has simply been a matter of simple logic) to be able to match exactly what their needs are in the exact situation; whether it is a spell that is meant to be a combat spell such as Fireball, Burning Hands, Shocking Grasp, Chilling Touch, Meteor Swarm, or a spell meant for menial tasks such as the commonly used Clean, Mend, Scry, Locator/Locator Anchor, Message, etc... (though obviously the chosen spell would also appropriately fit the situation at hand as well; All Spellcasters Study Magic their ENTIRELives After All

The Question

Our Beautiful Empress L`aquera herself is frequently seen fine tuning her control over the magic at her command, myself and my RL mates that in the game frequently do the same, and I know a couple of other players that play the same and we all seem to apply to my line of logic on this that if a spell caster has studied their entire lives how to cast and master the naturally chaotic force that is magic then we will then naturally be able to also fine tune exactly how much energy we are pulling and manipulating with each call upon said Magical Energies.

So, why then does it seem that when the Empress has showcased this ability everyone else in the community that TLI is seems to act like it is a unique ability that only she could possibly have like she is some form of higher level or more able spellcaster than any other spellcaster in the entirety of the Realms? Every Spellcaster receives the same basic training and control would be perhaps the very foundations of those basics because if a Spellcaster is not able to control the magic then it would consume them entirely?
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Thunder on Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:10 pm

Honestly I am not sure. Some come late into having their caster different. I know at times Thunder cant control some of her magic and that is because it is said in the spell itself that it cant be controlled. But she also did come to being a earth mage later then one might think since she died was brought back by Sorgram and the mix of the fire he used and the ice mage she was changed her completely. But it would make sense that if you are a caster you would grow and be yourself and more as long as you do the things your suppose and that is even before one would go and get more I think. Maybe I make sense maybe I dont.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby James Vodera on Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:40 pm

James hasn't always been a magic user, but once he started down that path it was natural for him to learn how to control it for the most part, even before he chose to walk the path of flame... After that he ended up fine tuning his own magic to his whims, even altering the color of his fire depending on his mood or want at the time. While yes I know things like that are purely cosmetic, it still goes to showcase that level of control magic users have even after a short time of study and practice, since technically James would have only been wielding magic for about 15 years now, a small chunk of time compared to some mages.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Dante_Ambrogio on Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:43 pm

Makes sense to me in honestly; I think with the exception of certain cases (spell specific for example, damage to the mage, brain/head trauma, etc) what I am getting at here is that the very first basic precept taught to a Mage (also likely Healers) is Control (both Self and General) because Magic in and of itself is a Chaotic Force that if you do not have absolute mastery of Control then the magic will consume you the moment you open yourself to it.

Druids and Shamans have always been shown to utilize magic in a different way than Mages and most other Spellcasters and they also typically are so grounded by the fact that they tend to be nearly one with nature and (and in the case of Shamans) they can directly communicate with the Spirits of Nature and the world itself and as such when they draw upon magic they have a filter that it goes through that makes it safe for them and it only ever exactly what they need and unless something is horribly wrong with Nature or the Spirits their magic has a nearly null chance of being volatile.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby miyuka on Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:35 am

I'm not sure I fully understand the question so apologies if my reply is way off base here. Why wouldn't some people be impressed by someone's particular skill level of use with their magic? Also what do you mean by fine tune a spell? You can certainly flavour a spell as far as casting it goes (with some exceptions) and how powerful it may or may not look, but the more wild things would more than likely require a Special item of some kind (such as Yuka's magic bow allowing her to change the shape of certain spells).

As far as control goes, that's pretty much up to the player so long as they are following the mechanics of the spell. Miyuka was once a fire mage back in the day as well as being a little magic slut and just loves seeing magic be used in general, so for her, seeing someone cast even a simple spell gets her excited. Seeing someone of L's skill level cast her fire spells is even more impressive to her becuase Miyuka wasn't as capable at handling fire magic as L was. So when Yuka cast her fire spell back then they were mechanically still doing the same rolls and damage, but RP wise it would come out as a more wild uncontrolled looking thing, or (if I rolled a miss) just kind of sputter at times/go way off course.

Even now as an airmage, Miyuka is more in tune with the wind side of things and while OOCly I can just toss a bolt of lightning and roll like anyone else, ICly, her lightning comes easier only when she's in a state of anger or if she uses her magical bow. All fluff and all fine...and whether someone wishes to be impressed by it or not is up to the character.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Naomh on Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:08 pm

I see two different questions being asked here, one in the title of the thread and one in the opening post.

Can magic users fine-tune their spells? To a point. As long as you remember some basic things like firebolt even at its weakest is a spell used to deal a fair bit of damage to an opponent. Using it to light a pipe is like using a flamethrower to do the same job for instance. Fine tune and adjust all you want, it's still should be too much for the job. We also allow some flexibility in spellcasting style, as long as the basic rules of hand gestures and spoken word is followed. My mage 'draws' glyphs in the air that she manipulates to shape and control the spell she's casting, while Naomh herself even at her magey-est was more folksey, using sing-song incantations and 'marking' parts of the ground to help her form the spell.

Question two:

Dante_Ambrogio wrote:So, why then does it seem that when the Empress has showcased this ability everyone else in the community that TLI is seems to act like it is a unique ability that only she could possibly have like she is some form of higher level or more able spellcaster than any other spellcaster in the entirety of the Realms? Every Spellcaster receives the same basic training and control would be perhaps the very foundations of those basics because if a Spellcaster is not able to control the magic then it would consume them entirely?


Why then, did the welders at the place I work at, who went to school for months for their welding training, were so damned impressed by watching the bossman do one single weld that that was all they could talk about for the rest of the day?

Perhaps it's less the 'they did a thing' and more 'oh they did a thing so damned well.' Or for the non-magically inclined characters they could feel the raw power a character with hundreds of levels under their belt controls and be awed by that. Going back to Naomh for a moment, she's a high-level earth mage now, can literally transform her body into diamond, make the earth tremble under her opponent's feet and turn to quicksand and so much more, yet watching L create an immense fireball will still earn some awe and respect as L`aquera is a master of her craft, manipulating a truly immense amount of power, and can make it look so damn easy.

Then of course there's magicsluts like Yuka.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby L`aquera on Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:09 am

Dante_Ambrogio wrote:L`aquera displays this sort of control over her magic IC which I have witnessed firsthand; I have always roleplayed magic this way; and I have played with others that feel and do the same but recently I have been confronted with the argument of "Thats L" in reference to this and that simply does not sit right with me as if L`aquera can do this then so too should all players as despite being the Empress she is still just another player if she is not wearing her honeybun or doing official Empress things.


I think you are mistaking 'skill' with 'style' although I think Miyuka and Naomh touched on this. Control for me IC is more all about aiming and 'energy' mixed with style. Lets not forget the lvls I can wield. I often sit back in awe when I see Elthorion go on out there and cleave someone in two (and this is factual) or when Miyuka is floating about on her cloud so casually. Or when I watch Ray`el in action. Or lets face it, when Ehlanna can wield that level of adoration by a spell so simplistic but it leaves them pantieless and dripping?

All these are Style and skill over time of learning ourselves and our characters. Its a natural progression of time spent within your chosen magic. Its flattering but the truth of it all really is.. how one words it. Are you an aggressive player (I mean in how they move and word it, not in swinging an axe!)? Do you throw yourself into the progressive growth? If you do, then of course your style stands out. Because objectively you'll pay attention. I've been here since.. uhh.. 2004? Maybe 03. And quite a few folks have been here longer. And just as an aside, I've seen newbies be very impressive with just lighting a candle on the table (no joke).
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Eucep on Sat Oct 08, 2022 11:16 pm

There is absolutely the detail of how powerful a character is, representing how well trained they are at their arts. For this I combine both levels and actual years of playing a character. This fine tuning or style can even be matched with a warrior who hones his or her skill to such a fine degree that they could perform a bloodless cut.

Myself am probably one of those who really plays it loose with how magic manifests, but I stick to personal rules of 'keep it in theme' and 'keep it in power' and 'never use this for combat'.
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Re: Magic Users - Can they fine tune their spells?

Postby Sanjin Koukyu on Sun Oct 09, 2022 6:10 am

I'd say just as much as Naomh, Miyuka and L have said already...

As someone who's new to TLI compared to a great many of you, yet old in the ways of roleplay.

Keeping it 'reasonable' and growing into 'remarkable'. Low level characters are weak, statistically and by virtue of what they have access to; they're not going to have the mehrial to spend on lots of slots of a spell or really good equipment unless they're funded by an older character for some reason. Fine tuning doesn't necessarily only apply to magic users, but also to any sort of combat -- that Ranger isn't going to be able to thread the needle, so to speak, at lower levels, but as they grow in level, experience, and gear, the only thing that stops you from writing out some fantastic feats is the limits of the imagination.

But for the sake of the thread, lets look at some examples of spells throughout the levels.

Lvl 1-10 character who spent their level up points on stats and not spell slot.

*Jim-Bob saw a chance, a chance to prove themselves, to show they had a gift: power. With shaky hands, Jim-Bob snatched the warmth from a nearby candle and ignited a bolt of flame within their hands before overhead lobbing it at the orc. A dull flame of shaky orange and dull red dashed itself on the orcs armor to no avail -- Jim-Bob sighed, relegating himself to the idea of being the big green brute's cocksleeve for the night.

Level 20-30 character who's been practicing their craft and has proper battle experience.

*Haruka growled as any blood thirsty wolven was. She'd been struck several times, the robes doing the best they could with the enchantments woven into the threads of cotton and silk, but her blood soaked through and now her anger was getting the best of her. The orc, adorned in thick plate, had kept himself close to her, so she lashed out with her claws, striking sparks into the air. She'd no intent on fighting in melee range, but the sparks flew into her awaiting hands, a pulse of static setting fur on end before delivering a potent bolt of energy into the orc's helm-hidden face.

Level 40+ A veteran of wars, adept in their advanced class and weaver of many magics.

*Ghormul was slow to move, slow to act, and slow to anger... but the whelpling kept on as the mountainous troll walked through the forest spouting some nonsense about 'saving the maiden' that he had slung over her shoulder -- his slave who loved acting innocent and causing him no end of headaches. Rather than giving him any more time of day than was absolutely necessary, Ghormul reached up and gently scratched at a stone-flecked shoulder; it happened in an instant, a blink of the eye -- a thick, knotted finger flicked and launched a small shard of slate towards the white knight, which immediately enlarged to the size of a watermelon. The white knight didn't know what hit him as everything went black

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It's really up to you to 'color' your character within the confines and rules of the spell Using Sanjin as an example, a visage of a dragon enveloped her face (tarnished silver) before a thick cloud of shadow-stuff was spewed at a cloud of fire bees It's just Shadow Bolt though. Wolven and Vulpines can have their tails ignite, frost over, encrust with dirt and dust, etc.

Just have to be careful, unless your character is a Don Quixote type that overblows everything -- making your level 2 create this glorious, perfect ball of super destructive fire ... which statistically is only two slots of Firebolt, is generally gonna get you (as a general term, not you specifically) some intense side-eye.
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