Elves and Maturity

[Vladimir]

I've read the information on the site about one or two of the elf races, and havn't seen anything yet specifically stating when Elves mature, and yet the topic is one that often comes up in channel, and which people get rather passionate about. It seems like a rather popular opinion that elves don't reach maturity until they're 50 years of age, and many elves claiming to be in their late teens or early twenties often get stern talkings-too from those who share this belief.
Personally, I think any race maturing at any age asside from that of regular human beings is just asking for trouble.
If you ask me, it should be clearly stated that Elves, cat people, wolven, drak`sen, nymphs, or any other race for that matter reaches adulthood at the age of 18. That way theres no room for confusion, and no room for wholly unneccessary arguments.

[Stormbringer]

It's been a long-term tradition that elves reach adult at 80, though I'm not sure where it originated. Maybe a carry-over from another place? I tend to agree it can be confusing and that there isn't any necessary correlation between long life and the process of reaching physical maturity.

I'll be interested to see what other replies we get here.

[Ray`el]

I think the rule of 18 should say physical maturity. and 18 equilvant. as elves may live longer? some races may live shorter then humans. as for elves.. I play it they age at about..1/7 or 1/10th hyman speed after abit.. rays whos almost 300 is still in his "20s" for elfs. very young

[lyllamarie]

I don't think the fact that physical/mental maturity will be detriment to actual lifespan. All races should be physically and mentally mature at 18, imho

[Vladimir]

agreed with Lyl. Theres a keen difference between growing and aging. It stands to reason that Elves and Humans (and all other humanoid races) would grow at the same rate, their differences in lifespan due to slower/faster aging. It just seems like a safer policy, and that stating it as the rule would avoid alot of future arguements between characters playing Elves.

[Phaing]

According to ElfQuest, elves grow up just as quickly as humans, and remain looks as if they are 20 till they are about ready to kick the bucket.

THis makes more sense than the D&D rules. And 80 year-old teen-ager? Yeah, right, and with they wisom and maturity of the ages... does'nt sound like much fun to me!

[Lindor]

Having played Elves for most of my existence as a roleplayer (approx. 10 years), and being an avid Tolkien fan, I might be able to shed some light on this subject. Most Elven races are based off of Tolkien, as he was the first fantasy-fiction writer to really expand on Elven history. Subsequently, most role-playing games take their tips from Grand Master J.R.R... I was under the impression, through various research, that Elves reach the equivalent of a mature adult at the turning of their first century. 80 or 85, then, should truly represent 18 in Elf Years.

It doesn't really seem fair to compare the lifespan of an Elf to that of a mortal, as they are not truly mortal beings - unaffected by sickness or disease, or the natural aging process.

Just the humble opinion of one long-time Elf.

[L`aquera]

Indeed I agree with the pretty lady above me in this. Tolk speaks of the longevity of an elves life, their dreamy inner nature that has them staring for hours upon the trees, listening and thinking. "Maturity" derives in our own daily lives by a law usually at the age of 18, older to be drinking in a bar or smoking. At 80 elves pull themselves from the quality of being within a groove to daily living and start looking outwards to something less lazy, if you will.

[gwyneth{StWi}]

this is why gwyneth was 105 when she was enslaved, a young adult. gwyn agrees with the slower maturity thing, and an elf saying they are in there 20's or teens, well, it can just be assumed the elf is giving an "equivalent" age to a human development, especially if it's one of the "lesser races" they're speaking to.

just a girl's two coppers,
in service,
gwyneth

[Dalahlaleeah]

Ok - interesting topic. Much like Lindor it is something I have read about over and over because I do tend to prefer the elven races.

My understanding has always been this: In the aspect of "growing up", meaning gaining height and such from infant to child to teenager, is the same as any other race. However - such things as puberty and mental growth are slowed in aspect to that of the other races.

This would mean that a human at 18 would be mentally, sexually and physically mature while an elf of 18 would have most of the same physically attributes of maturity though would not be mentally or sexually mature.

It is the only thing that makes some semblance of sense. Otherwise a human and an elf born on the same day would grow at astonishingly different rates with the elven child not leaving infant stage for quite a long time after the human child had become a toddler or school aged child.

The only other school of thought that I have seen is the discussion that once an elven child reached a certain age their body simply slowed the rate of aging to the point that it was almost non-existent - thus affording them the title "immortal" because they achieved life spans of centuries as opposed to other races that died in seventy to eighty decades (and not bringing up life spans according to factual evidence like how long humans lived in medieval time - which was astonishingly short).

Either way - if it is set that elves age the same as humans in all aspects I think it would ruin the longevity aspect of the elven races. They are different than the other races and I think that it should be noted that they do not mature the same as humans - else you run into problems of explaining the longevity aspect.

It is definitely something that should be addressed in the write up on the elven races to eliminate any confusion on it.

[Burgo]

I would sugest elves say their human equivalent of age as not to scare the person. If an elf says he-she is 18, it means that she has an age that would be translated to 18 if he-she be a human. This could be done as not to scare the person in saying, hey I am 85, I look good, but I am as old as your granny.

[Dowjin]

Physically, I think 80 years is a good milestone for claiming an elf to be "mature".

Mentally, however, I've always assumed they retain the wisdom of all those years. To the scale that they're only really considered "young" from the perspective of other elves.

Though, its hard to role play a character that's supposed to be smarter than you are. XD

[Ielenia]

I do think the relative maturity ages should be posted on the races page..mostly to put the debate to rest.

that said, Elves have gone through many variations.

more recent D&D says a elf matures at the same rate as a human, but elven society keeps them "childlike" till they are past century. JRR's view and elfquests have also been stated.

when I came to tli I orginally placed Ielenia at 80 and was told that was to young and it had to be moved to 100+, later I was told 80 was fine personally i like 80 as a nice spot, mostly because it compares to my own game world.

Perhaps this might help..this is from my own write up of elven life in my game world...due note it varies from subtype to subtype but I'll still to the generic High Elf for now

Years:
1-24 physically and mentally children
25-49 physically maturing, mentally still considered young teens (think 11-13)
50-79 physically mature, mentally considered teens. (think 14-17)
80-99 Mature mind and body, not a full adult, elves spend this time learning a trade or class (think 18-21)
100-499 young adult, awarded the right to walk their own path
500-1199 middle years
1200-1599 old and wise
1600+ Twilight years, this is the age elves start showing their age, crinkles around the eyes, thinning of lips, though barely noticable, elves know the signs

In my game world no elf has lived past 2000 years, but they are not ment to be unaging like in TLI.
the graph could be amended to just say 1200-unkown to symbolise the unaging aspect..or honestly keep the table as is as in my world a "elf" will look roughly 18-25 for over a thousand years they would be "unaging' by most races standards, and yet we could give the fae the true unaging aspect..looking 18 for as long as they exist.

[Liriel_Xolarrin]

I'd say that you can never say for sure in this matter. Every book claims different things... I base myself on the books of forgotten realms and a Drow reaches puberty usually before 25 so adulthood should be something like 36 or son, in comparison... In the same way, dragon lance does seam to make it above 100 years... There is really no rulling for it here as none was ever presented and if anything I'd have to go by the "looks like 18" or so to define age for the elven Races.

[Lindor]

Ielenia's write up feels accurate. Anyway, it seems the majority of us who play Elves agree that 80 = 18.

I've been doing some math... It's hard to divide 80 by 18, but if you round it up to 90, 90 divided by 18 comes to 5. So we now can see a formula for the process of Elven maturity... Five Human Years equals One Elven Year of growth. That means that at age 100 they'd be '20 years old' and at 105, "21", etc...

But then we'd assume, at this point, that their growing stops or plateaus as the Elf comes into maturity, and will not show wrinkles or signs of aging until well past 1000 years (as per Ielenia's chart).

In Tolkien, however, the Elves never showed any of the afflictions of mortal aging. After thousands of years had passed, some of them would become so distraught at the changing of Middle Earth (or having fallen in love with a human who died long ago), that they'd choose to go to a favorite grove or mountain and quietly let their spirit return to Elvenhome... no trace of the body left behind. They were truly at one with nature (Even the 'High' Elves or Grey Elves, as Sylvans were considered almost 'Dark' in nature due to their breaking off from the Elven 'family' and taken to the deep places of the forest, and they were often Hermits) and could meld in between both spirit world and physical one - perhaps the secret of their longevity?

The Drow or Moriel aspect of 'Dark Elves' is a new thing entirely - Tolkien never wrote about that so I assume it comes from another game or is someone else's brainchild... And a brilliant one, at that! Personally, Lindor kinda has a thing for them.

So it'd be hard for me to have an opinion on them, anyway, as I've never roleplayed one and I'm sure I wouldn't be good at it, though I admire those who do and do it well.