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I can only repeat that I'm very much in favor of this new 'redefining' of sorts. If for no other reason than to set down, once and for all, just what is expected of a 'slave' in public. We've always been very lenient and vague in the past, to allow for player creativity, but I think it'd do a world of good to set down just how the 'world' in general looks upon slaves and sets up a standard of expected behavior...
A question has come up for me during a recent OOC conversation.
Let us say you have a character, for instance, a duessa. Who has pledged herself to a Master, and who serves his interests (and him) religiously, yet who does not act much like a slave outside of that.
Now, this character would not fit into the area of Concubine, she is not her Master's lover, she does not profess to love him, she is his slave, she devotes herself to him, and he considers her his property, not his lover. IE, he does not use her only for sex, and she is fully submissive to him, not just sexually submissive to him.
However, she doesn't see herself as 'slave to the world', and will likely do all the things that slaves should not do.
Now ICly, if someone was to punish her for this, that would probably be working right into what she -wants-, being a painslut and a duessa, as well as one who likes to push boundaries. And this is fine with me. Someone wants to teach her to 'obey slave rules' you have my complete ooc permission to do so.
But what worries me, is that this might be rolled to the ISA and then she is forcibly stripped of her {} and forced into whatever concubines are eventually forced to wear. Thus limiting the RP rather than expanding it for her.
Will the ISA be able to force a slave to become a concubine? When both slave and Master know the possible ramifications (punishment, fines, forced slave lessons with ISA trainers) and accept them as a part of the deal that they accepted when the collar was originally put in place?
Krom wrote:Slaves in TLI are not completely in line with their traditional role either and would you really expect to see a Viceroy / Baron selling erotic underwear in a bazaar?
I am a man of many talents... You should see what i can do with a golf club, ice cube, and stuffed penguin.Now IC, I can see this giving a new dimension, a concubine may not need to defer to free people who are not their Master, but that doesn't mean everyone else won't treat them like chattel. They almost become half- a citizen, or second-class. Slaves are hardly counted as a citizen at all, if at that, they are akin to work mules and the cart which that mule pulls.
This is a very good idea of what I see it as. Basically indeed a Concubine = 2nd class citizen, Slave = property, not citizen.
Will the owner of a concubine be charged a monthly fee as is a normal slave owner? Also will the normal slave having to be in collar 30 days before uncollaring apply to the Concubine collar?
I completely agree with that statement. And Stormbringer already said it will be getting done once the Concubine thing is all ironed out and put into play. I think doing it will help define slavery in the game alot and is something that has needed to be done long ago. Along with what is expected of a slave I think we need to set down punishments that are followed as well if the slave misbehaves. Too many slaves in this game run about as if they are free people and use the collar as a way to have someone who will protect them when they get into trouble. That isnt what a slaver owner is for, unless the slave is hurt through no fault of their own.
I actually do see a reason to allow a slave to be bumped up to concubine. Perhaps the relationship between Master and slave has evolved and he wants to "reward" the slave? Perhaps he is already bonded but has fallen in love with the slave and wishes her not to be less than the mud on the boots of society? There are reasons.
I think you misunderstand Dalahlaleeah. Stormbringers first post already stated a slave can be made a concubine in the first month after it enters the game. What I was speaking of is a forced move by the ISA
One of the reasons that I have enjoyed TLI for so long is the freedom that it allows the characters to build their own relationships and play them out. With this new system I am afraid that it is going to turn into a staple of " all slaves have to act like this no matter what. "
Ok, everyone take a deep breath, and relax just a bit. let's not jump at the slave rules that are not even posted yet, wait and see what's proposed and take it a step at a time. This whole debate is starting to remind gwyn of when the ooc consent for fighting rules changes happened. There was a lot of "we're all doomed" talk then too, a lot of thinking, at the time that all the high level chars were going to squash all the low level chars for no reason. if gwyn remembers correctly even Master StormBringer was not convinced it would work, and yet, we faced the change as adults, and the incidences of death and serious injuries actually went *down* from what it had been. (and as a healer, gwyneth can assure you that's a true fact). Fewer fights are diced, there's more free form and room for creative role play... and for lower level chars to beat high level at Their own games.
So, concubines, they don't seem like a bad idea to gwyn, nor does the future prospect of delineating slave behavior just a bit more. it leaves less room for misunderstandings of the rules, and wasted time on charges that should never be laid. it makes fewer headaches for Master, slave, and ISA alike, potentially, especially for those slaves who aren't looking to get into trouble. and more rp opportunities for those who *like* to get into trouble. But, as the 'new slave rules" are still a future unknown, let's wait to be Chicken Little until we actually see the big blue chunks heading our way.
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