Belariath

So, I'm going to use two words in this suggestion that have been used in the past and shot down because they didn't fit the setting or the rules. Please keep in mind that when I use these two words, I am not using them in THAT sense. Please bear with me and I'll keep it brief.

Arena Slaves:

To my knowledge there are no Arena Slaves in the vein of the shops and the Inn which can either possess slaves to do menial tasks or be assigned slaves in the form of captured criminals paying their debt to society. Obviously, I am not suggesting that we have slaves assigned to the Arena who will take up arms and fight for the entertainment of the masses. That idea has been (rightly, in my humble opinion) shot down in the past. What I am suggesting is that those who are slaves of the Arena would be to add RP flavor to the Gladiatorial experience. Their primary duties would be to "attend" to the needs of the winning gladiators or tournament winners, in every sense of the phrase, from sitting by them while they are recovering from concussions, to collecting their gear and polishing their armor, to of course, (if OOC consent allows) sexual favors like Inn Slaves. Their secondary duties would extend to cleaning up, doing menial tasks for the Arena at large, and maybe even heading out into the world at large and advertising the Arena.

Thoughts?

I like this. Very much so.

Nice write up and good suggestion. I personal don't see a problem with your idea of a Arena Slave. However As we all know there is always those few players who want to take something and push the rules beyond their limits. I think that is why the idea has been swept away more than once in the past. The idea as stated by you is a good one I think, but if approved the players who have a char become a Arena slave must understand that Myself nor Azara will argue with you if we see your char has broken the rules for slavery in terms of fighting or the use of a weapon simply because of the fact that you belong to the Arena. The lost of the collar would be implemented on first offense. No excuses, second chances, or arguments about the rules will be accepted.
:If we don't see the rules being broken ourselves, then logs will be needed for proof of the rule breaking, to be used by Tawny because she has the Truth hear spell and Azara if she has that spell as well:
This could be a sticky area for slavery. And I know I don't need or want and I doubt Azara needs or wants to have to argue and fight over long established rules of slavery in the game if this is allowed to become a thing in the game.
Also if the arena is ever found to be having slaves fight for entertainment they will lose all collared slaves and the right to ever collar a slave to the Arena again at once.

Tawny wrote:Nice write up and good suggestion. I personal don't see a problem with your idea of a Arena Slave. However As we all know there is always those few players who want to take something and push the rules beyond their limits. I think that is why the idea has been swept away more than once in the past. The idea as stated by you is a good one I think, but if approved the players who have a char become a Arena slave must understand that Myself nor Azara will argue with you if we see your char has broken the rules for slavery in terms of fighting or the use of a weapon simply because of the fact that you belong to the Arena. The lost of the collar would be implemented on first offense. No excuses, second chances, or arguments about the rules will be accepted.
:If we don't see the rules being broken ourselves, then logs will be needed for proof of the rule breaking, to be used by Tawny because she has the Truth hear spell and Azara if she has that spell as well:
This could be a sticky area for slavery. And I know I don't need or want and I doubt Azara needs or wants to have to argue and fight over long established rules of slavery in the game if this is allowed to become a thing in the game.
Also if the arena is ever found to be having slaves fight for entertainment they will lose all collared slaves and the right to ever collar a slave to the Arena again at once.

So...this has come up so many times now, and the most solid answer I've ever gotten is that it's up to the Master/Mistress whether or not their slaves are allowed to fight and or carry weapons. So, can slaves just -not- period....or is it up to the owner? Cause if it's up to the owner, and the Arena approves...I don't see what the problem would be exactly?

Vexalicious wrote:So...this has come up so many times now, and the most solid answer I've ever gotten is that it's up to the Master/Mistress whether or not their slaves are allowed to fight and or carry weapons. So, can slaves just -not- period....or is it up to the owner? Cause if it's up to the owner, and the Arena approves...I don't see what the problem would be exactly?

Slaves are not allowed to fight. This has always seemed very weird to me because the whole point of gladiators was that they were in fact slaves, and captured warriors being forced to fight for others' enjoyment has been a thing in pretty much every society that has ever existed, and those societies didn't have access to slave-controlling magic, but let's not start that argument here.

As for whether they're allowed weapons for non-fighting purposes (bows for hunting food come immediately to mind, but there are others), my experience is that the answer to this question depends on which OP you ask, and what mood they are in that day. Not to mention that weapon restrictions are pointless anyway because nothing stops them from accessing deadly spells more lethal than any weapon, so the restriction serves no real purpose. The rule should simply be that if a slave causes harm to someone, they and the owner will suffer the consequences IMO.

With the above posts being said, especially with the head of the ISA weighing in very clearly with the ISA's position vis a vis slaves in the Arena, I think it should be clear that the Arena would not allow IT'S slaves to bear arms. And the above tangent has been played out many, many times in OOC and on the MB. May I respectfully request that the question of whether slaves in general may bear arms not be allowed to detract from this question which is about slaves who specifically will NOT be allowed to bear arms? Thank you!

And this is what I didn't want this to start. For those who are still having a problem understanding the rules for slaves might I suggest you read.. .http://belariath.com/locations/isa/conduct.html This was worked on and made by myself and Stormbringer himself years ago. And yes they used slaves in Rome in real life. This isnt Rome and this ISNT real life and its not suppost to mimic real life. This is Stormbringers Game and Stormbringers rules. I dont understand why that is so hard to grasp for some people.
Sorry if that makes me sound bitchy but this is exactly why some things are never considered. Again I say if the rules can be followed then the Arena having slaves like Ellyssa asked about is fine with me.

Slaves in this world are used for pleasure and labor with the latter being primarily (though not exclusively) an NPC thing as I understand it. Thus gladiatorial slaves will never be a thing, decreed by the people who run this show as the headmistress of the ISA Tawny herself has plainly pointed out. While the enforcement of the slave rules is heavily reliant on people reporting them, especially in an IC sense they are the generally accepted and known rules of the empire. Nothing is stopping a slave from holding a weapon but it would raise some eyebrows and have questions asked which can easily be answered "I'm bringing my master's sword to the smithy for repairs" or similar. It's the use of on specific things that's more the issue and in fact during my first month in TLI we had a reeve in the public stocks because their slave used a lethal spell (though didn't kill) on a couple freefolk. The knowledge of the spell wasn't punished but the use of it was.

I digress.

This tweak to the idea of an arena slave I particularly like and support the idea of, the only issue with it is I suspect we'll have to stress often and regularly that they can not fight... though looking at those rules from the ISA nothing is stopping them from having a little mud wrestling contest under orders. (I kid, I kid. <3 ya Tawny)

Well most don't know, SB has asked Tehya to keep the Imperial mobile stage at the arena. We transport it and keep it in shape there. It would be ideal, for an arena slave to rp doing this, as well as keeping the grounds in pristine shape.

When the stage is being asked to move they could do that too.

Just a suggestion!

I like the idea of Arena Slaves with the clarification that they are like Shop Slaves. Which, I do believe is what Ellyssa is suggesting (please correct me if I'm wrong). In that sense, the concept can be fairly simple:

* Arena slaves are NOT Gladiator Slaves - they are slaves that TEND to the gladiators (along with assisting employees and others who use the Arena for practices and such), but their main duties will be focused on the gladiators who -do- fight in the Arena. As Ellyssa stated in her initial post:

Their primary duties would be to "attend" to the needs of the winning gladiators or tournament winners, in every sense of the phrase, from sitting by them while they are recovering from concussions, to collecting their gear and polishing their armor, to of course, (if OOC consent allows) sexual favors like Inn Slaves.

* Arena slaves are there to do MENIAL tasks - washing bloody clothing, possibly mending clothing (depending on skill set), polishing armor, raking the sand floor of the Arena (can that be a thing?), picking up trash after an event, (EDIT: And taking care of the Imperial Mobile Stage!)... you get the idea. Again, as Ellyssa stated in her initial post:

Their secondary duties would extend to cleaning up, doing menial tasks for the Arena at large, and maybe even heading out into the world at large and advertising the Arena.

With that being said, I also understand Tawny's concerns because this game has had/does have players who seem to revel in twisting things beyond their intentions. I most especially support what Tawny said about rule breaking:

... the players who have a char become a Arena slave must understand that Myself nor Azara will argue with you if we see your char has broken the rules for slavery in terms of fighting or the use of a weapon simply because of the fact that you belong to the Arena. The lost of the collar would be implemented on first offense. No excuses, second chances, or arguments about the rules will be accepted.

Anyway, my two coppers.

~A~

And an addition to that note, we do have plenty of characters who ICly view that the whole 'slaves can not fight outside of extreme circumstances' as bunk as well, which may put the arena slaves in a tight spot now and again when someone wants a sparring partner or similar. May be good to clarify that the slaves are not for any fighting purposes whatsoever, even training buddy with padded sticks.

Just a thought.

It's a very good thought. I agree.

~A~

I think its a great idea. Yes, Tawny, youre right. in fact, by my understanding, slaves cannot own/use weapons, pnly concubines can...
considering their duties, a slave does seem to be the right category of servant, for this particularly since they are not and will not be performing in combat, they are.. water boys and towl guys and.. medics and healers, like a sports doctor. (with the added sexual element, obviously. because that too can elevate ones mental/physical state and therefore makes sense!)

Tawny wrote:And this is what I didn't want this to start. For those who are still having a problem understanding the rules for slaves might I suggest you read.. .http://belariath.com/locations/isa/conduct.html

Ok....wasn't trying to start anything, it's a question that I have that technically -still- hasn't been clarified, as if you actually -read- that link you posted, every one of the rules that talks of these things in fact specifies "At Owner's Discretion" or uses the words "not -commonly- allowed"...it's not a for sure answer. That page does not say "Slaves can not use weapons period"...so, sorry, but that still isn't actually clarified to me, other then that the Arena as owners are agreeing and saying it would not be allowed

None of my characters have actually had anything to do with the functioning or responsibilities of the arena, with the exception of healing there on occasion but, the notion of assigned slaves to the arena seems like an interesting topic with the chance of good rp opportunities. I have a character that may be in need of something. If this were to come about, I may seriously consider putting her there as the very first arena slave. I've never done any of the fighting and have no desire to get my character involved in nothing more than the duties listed in the prior posts so, that won't be an issue at all.